Reincarnation?

[RaeUK]

[Just a note: was'nt sure were to put this discussion and could'nt (quickly and impatiently) find a thread on this subject. So, dear Boss Of These Topics, please feel free to move this piece to a more appropriate place if needs be :)]

I used to hold a passing acknowledgement to reincarnation. Seemed to have something to it - if only by the volume of those who accept the process as real and the evidence produced to its credit.

However, the instant I read Jesus' comments on the matter, I was struck by the sheer logic of his argument - the details of which I already knew and accepted as fact. Nothing like holding contradictory idea's!

But vast swarthes of people still take reincarnation as a fait accompli and many are turned off by the Divine Love stance that its a myth.

There are a couple of explanations: 'Spirits in the room' is one good example of why some believe reincarnation is fact, others feel that maybe some people are more attune to [for lack of a better catchall expression] the 'Akashic Record' and research is being undertaken in this area, and so access 'past life' experiences that way.

Another area slowly coming to the fore is that of 'memory' and where it resides. [We all know our 'memories' and where they fit in with our 'mind'].

Maybe these stories are old hat to those on the other side of the pond, but they're just coming out over here and I find them intriguing. That is where people have had an organ transplant or a blood transfusion and then begin to exhibit traits held by the donor.

One particular case [I'm working from memory so I'll be vague for now!] involves a guy who needed a kidney transplant. His wife was the best match. He's now 'complaining' that he's taken on many of his wife's traits and habits. Likes and dislikes.

Now, it could be argued that this is a psychological reaction. But I recall - over the years - reading of similar cases here and there.

That leads me to the thought that - maybe - this is another reason for a belief in 'reincarnation'. Memory held in the genes/dna. Is knowledge and experience held throughout the body and when some exchange [blood transfusion / organ donation / and then the logical derivative of ANY bodily matter exchange] tranferred?

I'll open the floor to you good people...

[harry]

Ray,
I find that people believe whatever suits them on this subject but the Padgett Messages has the messengers flatly stating that reincarnation is impossible and then go at lengths to explain why. I side with this presentation.

If it were possible I can think of nothing more insensible or thoughtless than for one to be leading a life which is actually a continuation of someone else's life. It seems that those who believe in reincarnation tend to disregard the lack of consideration to the feelings and destiny of the host body. I have my own life to live and if some earth plane spirit were to be able to enter into my body and live the way he wanted to, with me kicking and bucking all the way, I would be like a horse being ridden. This would give me reason to resent the intrusion of my privacy and above all cause me to regard God as unfair to allow such a thing to happen. Were reincarnation possible, and I ended up being the host to some departed spirit, if I found this to be a fact, I would therefore consider myself totally blameless for anything whatsoever that I did, because after all, if really wasn't me, it was that other guy. :cool:

For countless millions to believe in anything hardly gives it credence. Millions of persons around the world are totally convinced that it would please God immensely if the citizens of the USA were mercilessly slaughtered.
Holding that believe on their part does make it a valid posture.

Apparently some people are more enthralled with this early existence than I am because once I leave here, I cannot for one moment imagine wanting to come back and do it all over again.

love,
harry

[RaeUK]

Hi Harry,

Thanks for your post, its an interesting thought that if, for example, I held what I believed to be 'memories of a past life', how intrusive would they seem?

For me, I accept quite happily that reincarnation simply does'nt make sense. And I agree wholeheartedly that I can't imagine a scenario where I return to earth without kicking up one heck of a fuss!

Interestingly, in recent years, I've been coming across more channelled messages which echo the same thing. In answer to the question of reincarnation, the answer more frequently is along the lines of 'well, you know as much as we do' and the response to 'would you be happy to reincarnate if it were possible?' is often along the lines of 'you have to be kidding!'.


Much love

RayUK

[Joseph]

I admit that I 'waffle' on this topic of reincarnation. I don't believe it and I yet do believe it.

Just because I read a message or two in the Padgett messages doesn't answer all my questions. Hey, I am in the process of changing, but I am not totally changed. :D I am being convinced, but not totally convinced yet. I don't see the issue of reincarnation as a matter of hindering my receiving more divine love, and that I see is the primary object of our soul yearning.

That said, allow me a word of where I am coming from.

Before I came to the Padgett messages (7 or 8 short months ago) I saw the soul metaphysically...that is, pictorially, I understood the soul to be a humongously huge entity or being created by God in perfection and wholeness. This true and real self, has primary existence totally outside of the linear time that we presently experience in this physicality. The specific person that I am now in this physical world is only a small fraction or aspect of the expression of my larger reality, which is always existent and always perfect and whole, beyond the experience of time and materiality.

This present experience in this world as "Joseph" is but an aspect of the whole and real and true self that I am. Therefore, the many lives that I have lived are small expressions of my true and real identity and add to the experience of the whole. In the form of an allegory, in this life-time I am an aspect of a multitude-sided grand diamond. No one part (a particular lifetime) is the complete story of who and what I am. I, as Joseph in this life-time, do not know all the sides of the diamond (I think I know some of them, but not all of them). I have experienced and felt myself at-one with the total picture of what and who I really am.

Now, in the Padgett messages I come to hear that the persons in other lives I think that I was (or am) is none other than voices of spirits across the pond playing with me -- spirits wanting to continue their existence through me beliving that I was indeed this or that person.

To an extent, I am beginning to think the Padgett messages might be correct.

There is a weight of evidence in both camps that is very attractive. Experiences within the camp that I use to move within are very influential (spirits in the room). I have many friends in this camp and they can't undestand why I don't completely align with them anymore. It is not easy for me to say goodby to old beliefs (and friends).

In my own case, I presently believe that only good heavy doses of the experience of the inflowing of divine love will help. I am not content to "think" or "believe" that I am receiving divine love, nor to merely 'trust' that my soul is progressing. I need and want deep feelings of the presence of divine love. I don't want a shallow faith, I want faith that has Substance, just like the Padgett messages teach. Only this will help me transition from the metaphysical (reincarnation beliefs) I once aligned with.

Love and Joy,

Joseph

[Kay Ann Ray]

Dear Folks on the Divine Love Pathway,

Belief is of the mind and Faith is of the soul. It seems quite apparent that the mind can 'believe' what-so-ever it chooses. So my task is to seek truth with my heart and soul. I agree with Joseph, who doesn't see false beliefs as hindering our ability to receive more divine love, which he sees as the primary object of our souls yearnings.

Ray, I've also read articles where the characteristics of a doner were taken on by the person who received the body part. It is almost unbelievable, however the evidence is right there for everyone to observe. But, in my humble opinion, I do not see how this supports the belief in reincarnation.

In my experience, I have found that it is best to avoid saying anything about the subject, if at all possible. And, instead, emphasize the importance of God being Love, and that there's a Gift of Love all souls can receive, if they want It. I feel that it is also important to say that It is a free Gift which is not forced upon anyone against their will.

My wonderment about the concept is 'what happens to the personality of the original soul who incarnated?' My understanding is that the personality resides in the soul. The angels messages tell us that when a soul incarnates, it acquires a spirit body which remains with that soul forevermore as its identity. A soul with its spirit body cannot enter an embryo any more than a person can enter into the body of another person.

Of course, there is no answer to the dilemma because all souls have free will given to them by their Loving Creator. I am responsible for the choices I make. I am striving to love all God's children and hope to become a loving example of what God's Love in my soul can enable me to become. In the meantime, during the process of my spiritual development, all I can do is my best, and demonstrate my love to the best of my ability (which is, of course, still subject to flaws and errors).

God bless you each and every one. Keep desiring to know the truth and praying for closer at-Onement with the Creator of our souls, and I have faith that spiritual growth will continue to unfold for each sincere and humble soul.

With love, your friend and sister in God's Grace, Kathryn

[InkyWhip]

Ray, (and other folks)

A quick explanation re:DNA and genes.

Each of your cells has a complete copy of all of your DNA. Sections of DNA that
are 'controlled' by different hormones and signal paths are called 'genes'. Many
different factors affect which genes are 'turned on' and result in the production
of proteins. Some are essentially like factory operations and simply support the
normal functioning of cells. Others, like those turned on in sequence during fetal
development, puberty, etc. respond to specific signals. Some of these signals
may not even be 'biological' in nature. (i.e. Fathers show a significant increase
in estrogen levels, not a typically male hormone, when holding their children, it
seems to lead to an increase in emotionality and favors bonding between parent
and child.)

As far as I am aware, although the function of the products of genes
(proteins) and cell function play a role in the physical mechanisms of what
scientists refer to as 'memory' (distinct from the material and nonmaterial
mind, mind you.) the genes themselves do not change, and there is no means
of recording 'memory' in genes. You had all the genes (besides those involved
in your immune system, which were partially created through random splicing
and extension that results in significant genetic diversity required to generate
a bank of antibodies that will bind to a wide variety of pathogens) you will
ever have at the moment of your conception, and no experience, and thus
no memory then.

Now, predisposition toward certain proclivities or behaviors is different from
'memory', and may at least be partially genetically determined. As a father, I
see a predisposition toward a few OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) type
behaviors carried between my wife and son. A fact which I find humerous,
since it is the very replication of her own behavior that often vexes my wife
somewhat.

As far as organ donation goes...hmm, interesting, I'd favor a partial 'genetic'
and partial 'energy' explanation. For most organs which are donated,
considering that many serve dual operational/endocrine or hormone functions
(kidneys, liver, etc.) either responding to, convert (inactive to active
form...the kidney activates vitamin D) or generate hormones. Some changes
in hormonal response may predispose someone to different behaviors or
tastes. However, I don't believe this can fully explain a number of
transformations that I've read about. Some folks may feel 'tied to' or
interested in the recipients of their organs, or there may be some residual
'energy signature' that is related to the individual that is transferred with the
organ that results in changes in the receiver.

Inky, Ph.D.

[greg h]

Hello Folks!

I remember reading a number of years ago from Jane Roberts' Seth material about the 'aspect self' etc, similar to what Joseph was referring to. I now find myself wondering if that material doesnt come from intellectual spheres & realms of thought--not that it's incorrect per se, but polarized versions of truth. I also find myself wondering how perceptions are polarized, of course in part by the law of attraction, and by the relative material influences that are seem to be gradually lessened as one evolves spiritually and/or in Divine Love qualities of soul.

It's often funny how I can find someone to help me rationalize just about any viewpoint I want to identify myself with (irrational and dysfunctional or more 'lofty'), and, my beliefs seem to be an interface, so to speak, to my emotions. That is, those beliefs I hold "near and dear". My emotions are more linked to the soul, and it is there that a lot of work is being done, with God's help. The volumes tell me that the mind is an appendage of the soul. The faith I ask for assists me in not holding on to any particular mode of thinking that, over time, seems to gradually be modified toward a more loving and less fear based attitude. I believe this is why again and again, when I read something in the volumes, I "see" something for the first time that makes more sense, and appeals to a part of me that feels wholly different from that part of me that simply wants intellectual stimulation.

I find myself noticing that the soul sense is an entirely different "muscle", that, when exercised, works under different and elusive criteria-when trying to explain 'em in the usual manner.

One thing appears certain in the volumes. The certain knowledge of Immortality is no longer a debate when one enters the Celestial Heavens. It appears that the debating over those things (that we go back and forth on), is set aside, without out effort or that ambivalence that has so often, made me crazy.

I don't 'mind' and it doesnt 'matter'. Puns intended

With Love and gratitude for the inspiration, support and the dialogue as we tread the path's of Love and Faith

greg h

[Dan Bowman]

Dear friends,

A number of years ago I started a Divine Love Study Group and had regulars attending every week until...................the question of reincarnation came up. I shared what was contained in the Padgett messages as there was a hush that fell upon the group. They never came back again to our meetings. This subject appears to be a deal breaker for many and it doesn't have to be that way.

I'm learning more and more that it is the Divine Love that supplants false beliefs as we don't have to go to places of volatility, that makes some wanting to draw a line in the sand. The Divine Love is added to our belief matrix and does not require one to abandon other beliefs to make it work. I have since stopped discussing the matter with others just because it doesn't matter whether it's true or not, relative to the Divine Love potential.

When Ireland was converted to Christianity, there was some concern for their Druidic superstitions. However, instead of squashing and trying to destroy their beliefs, the Irish continued to hold their former beliefs along with their new beliefs in Christ. And so it goes with those we meet as we carry the torch for Divine Love. Ours is to add to and not to take away.

Your loving brother and friend,
Dan

[Joseph]

This is why Jesus urged James Padgett to visit thus-n-thus church and worship with the people. Their erroneous doctrines, teachings and beliefs did not stop the flow of Divine Love. Many of the worshippers were filled with Love and this was not the result of their beliefs...it was because their souls had true and sincere longing for God.

In my experience, I think what will happen (and is happening now to a certain degree) is that as I seek and long for more Divine Love I will one day wonder why I longer believe so strongly in reincarnation...then, as I keep praying and seeking Divine Love, another day someone might ask me if I believe in reincarnation and I will simply say, "No." I think when I answer this way I will surprise myself how easily such an answer came to me. All because Divine Love has dimned untruths, until they fade from memory.

Above all else, seek the inflowing of Divine Love.

Love,

Joseph