Prejudice and Truth

[Geoff]

S.E. Idaho Transcript
7-12-02

Centering Prayer(Bill): In the quietness of this moment with each other, in the stillness of the presence of God within your mind, worry not, nor be distracted by the hyper energy of self striving. Cherish the hands you hold, for, indeed, are you all one, even as we are. Be at peace. Amen.

Larenzo(Bill): Greetings, this is Larenzo.

Ken: Greetings, my teacher!

Larenzo: My friends, we are in an informal mode tonight and I am the first speaker. Know, all of you, that we, your brothers and sisters, as well as your personal teachers, are like parents who come to observe the progress of their young children. Even as you take delight in the presence of this little one, so do we take delight in being with you.
I wish to follow up on the idea of cosmic consciousness or soul consciousness as you are beginning to experience it at more aware levels. Like any skill, practice is the key. In order to be more heightened in your awareness, you need to consciously make the effort to stop the blinds of prejudice from closing out the light of truth.

You are all prejudiced people, for this is the nature of life on this planet, and, indeed, life on any planet. To overcome the restrictions of prejudice is a lifetime achievement. Many are the subtle arms of presumptions and assumptions which surround each of you in their grasp of reality restriction. This is not meant to be taken as a criticism. It is inevitable that you have built up presumptions as a result of your experience. And also, the mind cannot function without the usefulness of basic assumptions.

In order to be a truth seeker the challenges of prejudice must be engaged. The dictums of culture must be challenged. The correctness of your assumptions must be criticized. And finally, the location of truth must not be proscribed. Truth is an awareness function which is greatly dependent upon the filtering system of the mind. Prejudice, as you know, is an assumption made before the facts which censors the facts in such a way that all that comes through the filters agrees with the prejudice.(Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up.)

In order to unshackle the mind, arduous discipline over many years in necessary. Many people don't have the gumption or desire for that effort. You, however, who have enlisted in the service of Michael and who are self-proclaimed truth seekers, are under obligation to lift those heavy weights of effort and responsibility so that the truth may come shining through your mind and illumine the dark corners of ignorance and arrogance.

"To him that has, shall more be given", is a universe maxim. "To him that has not shall be taken away even that which he thinks he has"is the reciprocal truth. Disregarding the male language, think about the implications of this statement. Is this a description of universe unfairness? So have some interpreted it to be. Why should there be the haves and the have nots?

This is not a description of the origin of truth reception. It is the description of the conclusion of truth reception. All are equally offered truth, beauty, and goodness. He that has, or she that has, is that individual who has opened the shutters so there is a possibility of new information, new understanding, and higher values entering the mind. Then for the one who has not, because the shutters are closed, eventually the light diminishes to darkness. Now, understand, this is not a reference to any of you. It is a universe principle.

How do you decide where you might be prejudiced? You can't do it by yourself. You need the input of others. Yes, this TR knows this from personal experience.

[doug]

cool stuff! ;)

[InkyWhip]

Geoff,

I agree with Doug, a very interesting message!

Though it is, indeed, more insidious than even this post, itself, is
capable of revealing. Prejudice and assumption go hand in hand
with compound ignorance. Thus it is not, 'I have made up my
mind.' so much as it is 'I am unaware that it is even possible to
adopt a differing viewpoint with respect to this issue.' Since
prejudice, itself, filters out those viewpoints via assumptions, etc.
before they are even rationally considered.

Yes, our minds are occupied with enough useless gunk to clog our
days with unproductive and non-love directed thought, so we
need filters to some degree. But we really should check those
filters every once in a while to see if they are clogging, and not
allowing things through that need to get through.

Thanks, Geoff.

Inky

[Thomas]

Very good, Inky. I think it is even more insidious, and it also seems that this "Larenzo" is unaware that there is a more efficient path towards enlightenment, open mindedness, however one labels it - namely the Divine Love path, and I don't see any references being made to the importance of the Gift for spiritual progression, including getting rid of mind blocks. This suggests that this comes from a spirit unaware of the most important ingredient for real progress. The prescribed route of "arduous discipline over many years" in order to "unshackle the mind", seems like a very tiresome, overly-optimistic / naive and uncertain path, that will not necessarily give the desired effect, because the mind is very good at fooling itself. I am happy that there is a better Way, and that the clue is merely to pray for help.

:-)

-Thomas

[Thomas]

Geoff,

If the originators of Urantia understood the essential importance of Divine Love - as opposed to details, they would've included a thorough explanation of it in their deliverings. I am sure some of them have received some of the Gift, but many have, still only very few know what it actually is. We can find references to the Gift in the Bible as well, but it doesn't mean it is actually explained and sufficiently conveyed therein.

My point is that the Larenzo spirit may have had help from Divine Love in his soul - or not - during his spiritual development. But he doesn't seem to acknowledge anything else than his own "ardous discipline" in clearing up his mind.

So although one may find truth in there, from a natural path standpoint, it doesn't convey the Truth about Divine Love. And that is a huge thing to ignore.

I don't know if you want to take up the old Urantia discussion again, though. :-)

-Thomas

[Thomas]

Geoff,
I don´t think I am unreasonable, and I have no particular expectations. I merely perceive and say what I get out of it. And when I read what this Larenzo spirit says, I get the strong feeling he has no idea of the importance of Divine Love, thus what it actually is. It has nothing to do with using different terminology, it simply isn´t there. There is a limit to how much you can read into a message, which is simply not there. The Divine Love isn´t there, not just because the notion is missing, but because there is no paralleling concept that conveys the same understanding, at all, and that other factors are stressed instead. The type of "ardous discipline" and that "practice is the key" are common in spiritual teachings that simply ignores the gift of Divine Love, the originators having no specific idea of what it is. It´s simply a natural path type of insight, and thus of a lower order, in my mind.

I have yet to see anything that would suggests that the DL is actually conveyed through the Urantia teachings. And if it´s that hard to find, it´s optimistic to think that the majority of people will pick up on this "Message", as opposed to the focus on natural path insights.

By the way, I was talking about my understanding of the originators of the old Urantia material, in relation to the last message you posted, and have no idea if there are celestials that more lately are trying to influence the Urantia followers by subtle mixing in "stillness" and things that are not too controversial for them to handle.
If so, I say good luck. ;-)

Also, I think you, a DL follower, might be able to deduce something wortwhile for yourself by reading such messages, that you have indicated. That´s not what I am opposing, merely that the content itself does not seem to acknowledge the most important ingredient for spiritual progression in general.

-Thomas

[George]

Dear Brother Geoff,
I think it is perhaps you that has not grasped entirely what Thomas is saying and you are on the defensive.
You need not be my friend.
Though I agree 100% with what Thomas has expressed and there is others as well ion the past regarding the topic, I dont personally have a problem with reading some of the messages, especially the ones 'you' think we would benefit from.
I only requested a section be created within this section to accomodate that.
If Mark would agree to it. Which has not been his view in the past.

But please do me one small favour........ please........pretty please..

When you post one of these messages I want you to write and tell us what you see or feel or want us to take note of or the reason you so much like the message. Give me something brother to see what you are seing. Because sometimes I read and ..........nothing... and then I pick up one of the Padgett books and read a message and find myself in bliss.

Can you understand that difference?
I need some help in that area Geoff and youre the man for that!

Love you Brother :)

George

[Thomas]

Geoff,
I think it's good for you that you get something out of these messages. And if other people do, good for them. And I am not objecting to you posting them here. But then I think I and others are entitled to comment on them, with objective arguments like those I have put forth. "if these messages do nothing for you, don't read them." is perhaps easier said than done, because one has to read something before one can validate what it does or does not for oneself. Also, when you put it on the table, you cannot expect everyone to keep quiet. As this is a place for discussion about Divine Love and related topics, I guess that this, if anywhere, is the place to voice one's opinions. I don't think this is the place to post Urantia messages, if you don't wish any critical commenting. Actually, I was hoping you would continue with such discourse, and it's interesting to hear your views.

About the spirit Larenzo, the main point is not wether he is ultimately proven to be a celestial or not, but what the content of the message says. It is not a content that acknowledges Divine Love, but ignores it and instead focuses on natural path advice.
Thus, if he is in fact a celestial, it would be despite of, not because of, the content of that message.

Further, I don't think you should be using "he/she has not been on this path that long" as an argument, as it's not very objective, but more like an unfavourable attribution.

Again, I want to repeat that I am not into judging spirits. For all I know this Larenzo could be a celestial - merely having a bad day or something.

-Thomas

[George]

LOL, re the having a bad day.:D ;) :p :cool: :rolleyes: :) :) :p ;) :D

[InkyWhip]

Thomas,

Funny, but you still don't seem to be able to rephrase what you
think Geoff is saying in a manner consistent with the way in which
he is presenting the explanation. It is the same way with spirit
communication. The sender sends information in many ways, but
the receiver doesn't necessarily hear, or understand, or even
receive all of the information transmitted.

The best analogy I have is that I have had a number of CD's for
years, but there were sounds on them that I had never actually
heard before I got my Bose wave radio. Were the signals present
on the CD? Yes. But was my cheap boom box capable of properly
reproducing that sound? No.

As to the usefulness of all messages to all people, it aint gonna
happen. The best example I have of such a phenomenon outside
our group is in a network business I used to participate actively
in, which is now mainly a good way to get stuff, as spiritual
pursuits are far more important, and definitely more deserving of
my time. This business is actually now the 3rd largest e-
commerce site on the web. So we are not talking small potatoes
here, we are talking billions of dollars with a well-developed
training program.

Nonetheless, part of that program was the use of taped training
materials, distributed weekly to participants. But very seldom did
it occur that I, or anyone else found all of these materials useful,
even though they were selected by the top expert from trainings
presented by other successful millionaires whom he had taught.
It is simple, different people have different personalities, different
ways and rates of taking in and processing information. In an
endeavor such as ours, or any one that aspires to scale there are
only two choices, either attempt to provide a great variety of
material, such that, at some point, one will connect with each
follower, or attempt to find a medium level, at which all material
is presented. It's like saying, well, we have to feed all these
people from all different cultures, and some like this and don't like
that, and some like that, and don't like this. So either we serve
this on one day, and lose some customers, or serve that on
another day, and get those customers back, but lose others, or
we can forget serving what some people like, and serve
something bland that offends everyone equally. Yuck!

I'll take option 1, and pick and choose what works for me, which is what I think the messages encourage, anyway.

Oh, and by the way, Geoff, the Padgett messages, though I don't
remember where, reference the Soul as the seat of all thought,
which, I figured, was sufficiently indicative of the importance of
thoughts.

Inkantwealljustgetalong?

[George]

We all know this Geoff only too well. This is regarding the great majority of messages from Urantia are from the Lower Truths.
We now have the Truths exposed to us in such an easy way......... The Padgett and Samuels Messages that is..

Love,
George

[Thomas]

Originally posted by InkyWhip
[B]Thomas,

Funny, but you still don't seem to be able to rephrase what you
think Geoff is saying in a manner consistent with the way in which
he is presenting the explanation. It is the same way with spirit
communication. The sender sends information in many ways, but
the receiver doesn't necessarily hear, or understand, or even
receive all of the information transmitted.


The way you put out this statement is really irritating, and I am inclined to treat your whole message as simply "background noise". Consider this: I was not attempting to "rephrase" what Geoff was saying, I was trying to make clear what MY opinion was, as it seemed to be misunderstood. You should go back and read what I said - carefully, and be less eager to find ways to ridicule. It has nothing to do with my ability to present Geoff's view, if that was my intention, because I am presenting my own. Okay?

As to your one-sentence course in spirit communication, I am afraid it would've been better if you said nothing, because your point goes both ways, not just to the benefit of your own standpoint - a thing that seemed to have bypassed your assumptions.

-Thomas

[Thomas]

Originally posted by Geoff
[B]

My dear brother Thomas,

You might recognise that our dear brother Jesus had no compunction about teaching lower Truths when his listeners could not understand more advanced Truths. He did not set aside the conventional moral "path", but tried to add to it. It seems to me that both you and George, at the root of your objection, feel that any message that teaches "lower" Truths should not be on this board?


Geoff,
As I said, I have no objection to you posting them. However, I did get the impression from you that you were annoyed by critical comments - feeling hassled or so. Being not sure how much of this hasseling was ascribed to me, or who said what, on a general level I said that you have to tolerate critical commenting if you want to post those messages here - in my view. Of course, negative forms of hassleing is another matter than objective arguments, and of course we want to avoid the bad stuff.

When it comes to what you say about Jesus teaching natural path truths, that is a good point. Of course, the manner in which it is done has a lot to say. My feeling with Larenzo was that he ignored the Gift, while if for example Jesus taught a natural path truth, it would be something leading up to and facilitating one's susceptibility for the Gift later on - I would think. Maybe you have a message supposedly coming from Jesus, that you could post here, to illustrate what you're saying. It would be interesting.

So it is very much about the overall feeling I get, not that natural path truths are bad per se.
I teach natural stuff as well - to people not open to anything more, or if the situation is not appropriate to make a speech about the higher Truths. Some people run away the minute you mention "God" or "Jesus". Well, not literally, of course. :-)

-Thomas

[Thomas]

Originally posted by dockramer
Please stop! I'm with Richard. Can't we all just get along. As I recall the purpose of the web board was to teach "LOVE"!

I ask you to all take a few moments of silence. Say a prayer and ask God to remove whatever makes you argue in this manner.




Already have. But you must remember that it is a slow process. ;-)
By the way, who is "Richard" ?



If I were your mother, I'd make all three of you sit on the couch and hold hands for an hour and then send you to your rooms.



I don't know to what extent you're joking or serious here, but I am afraid there are people in this movement who would actually commit such a crime against a vulnerable child's free will.
Punishment does no good. The more people who understand this, the better.




I would suggest each of you remove the negative posts that are here. Mine will be removed in a couple of days.

Maybe I just don't understand but I still think the bickering is very unnecessary and makes for a very unloving atmosphere. Step-mother has spoken.:rolleyes:

God's Love to you all in abundance!


Thank you for your input, dockramer.

I don't feel that everything should be brushed under the carpet, and that we should, at all cost, pretend things didn't happen, when in fact they have. I sense that some people may prefer the illusion of an all-loving community among us, at all times. It's simply not a reality, no matter how much we would edit or delete our previous messages. None of us are angels yet. Keep that in mind.

-Thomas

[George]

Hey Richard,
Where are you? hehe

I guess you both live close. Kewl

It seems that some are just having a lovers quarell here.

Nothing some more Love in the soul wont overcome.


Here is something to munch on.

We sometimes try to make a point and jump all over everyone hurting along the way and I have learnt that even if you are right in the point it makes no difference.

It makes all the difference in the world to look to get your point accross without hurting anyone.
Looking to become a more compassionate person. To see how best I can serve others....

I know I sometimes may come accross as though I have something or know more, but that is not my intention. I guess it is not easy to really love someone unconditionally unless ....... well you tell me unless what?

Well just some thoughts.

Looooooovvvvvvvvveeeeee. I need Looooooovvvvvvvveeeeeee.

[InkyWhip]

Thomas,

I apologize if I seemed to convey an intent to ridicule you, that
was not what I had in mind. It was merely that I found that
Geoff was quite frustrated in his apparent inability to get you to
understand his point, and I thought that a restating in different
terms would be useful, and noticed along the way that people
seem to have the same difficulties in communicating with each
other, never mind spirits and mortals, etc.

Of course, I am not immune to such failings, either.

So, my humblest apologies.

InkanItakemyfootoutofmymouthnow?

[George]

InkanItakemyfootoutofmymouthnow?

I Love it :) hehe