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Geoff
08-12-2002, 05:37 AM
DATE: August 4th 2002
LOCATION: Rio Rancho, New Mexico
TEACHERS: ANATOLIA AND TOMAS
TOPIC: Universal Heartbeat
The Presence Within
Foresight and Prophecy
Q & A: Is it possible to foresee the future?
T/r's: Gerdean for Tomas
Matthew for Anatolia

Matthew: Let's place ourselves in presence of Jesus, the Christ.
"Master Teacher we come to you with light and open hearts, to be taught and to be opened to become supple to the ways of the Father and all of spirit hierarchy that places us within the realm of being at one with All That Is. And for us to understand that we're not kids looking in the candy store with our noses pressed up against the window, but rather there are no doors, there are no windows but the only limitation is that we place our selves before that which we understand is all good and all knowing as we've come to know the way of the Father.

Teach us today that which we are meant to understand and to hear for our ongoing growth and understanding. And for all of those who are no longer with us, they are also at one with you and with the Father and as we all reunite in eternity and that eternal moment here and now, that we know our true place, with that and all else that we may not verbalize but you know in our hearts to be true. We are forever grateful for the opportunity of oneness with you and with Father. Now and always. Amen."

TOMAS: Good afternoon, faithful class. I am Tomas. Anatolia and others ~ entities, student visitors, morontia companions, angels and midwayers among them ~ are heartened to be with you again this afternoon in our customary configuration of this foundation of faith that grows in this teacher-base community, this cluster of agondonters that are proving with their joint faith that the realities they aspire to are in fact, eternal realities which will contribute to the ultimate destiny of our grand universe.

How is it possible for me to have such conviction as to state such a claim? My authority is not in the curriculum of the Melchizedek University, no, but in the authority of my own experience and the revelation of divinity through my consciousizing. And that which has proven to be true cannot be taken from me for it is of me and it is of the Universal Father, and his ascension plan for his many creations. This reality of which I speak is the heart-beat that pulsates, that driving urge to live into every conscious corner of the universe.

The saying that "God is Love" in this context is altogether true and understandable, for all of you have a sense of 'love of life' and appreciation for the tenacity of life that even supercedes the Eveready battery in terms of keeping on keeping on in its intent to reach its goal. And so when it is said that 'His efforts will not fail,' His efforts in evolving these worlds and souls to perfection will not be stopped, will not be curtailed, indeed cannot be derailed from its intent and purpose.

And the way that you children of time are able to contribute to the pulse of life that enables the growth of the Supreme to be realized, is for you to associate and append yourselves to those eternal pulsations that will lead you into eternal life. Every impulse increases the strength of the First Cause. Each of your thoughts, each of your individual expressions, contribute to the overall flow of love in this cosmic sense.

The wonder of God is seen in you and you reveal this same incessant striving toward ultimacy. In blind faith of a sort, beyond yourself, you follow the call, you chart your course. You step out in faith of this invisible and unspeakable part of God and evolve your belief systems to support your interpretation of your reality. And you are living it in your life today. Your will is the key to the direction in which the winds of change will blow. You are torch-bearers. You are the ones who will provide the leadership that can change the course of destiny. You are changing it even as you express your faith through your love and your beliefs, through your connection to universal mind. You socialize here now in your community as the reflection of the Sons of God. Truly, you are agondonters, noble offspring of the unseen God of all, who makes his way into your creature consciousness and reveals himself to you in such a way as to help you become more than you were, and in so doing you will lead others to notice him and his love for his creation.

In summary, I have drawn these values from your discourse this afternoon. As you review these words in reflection, realize that you are a part of the heart-beat of the universe. Rejoice in the vigor that surrounds you and supports you. Have courage in your steadfast march into the unknown tomorrow. Bestow the vitality of the universal pulse which beeps within your very soul. You are the workers in the field. The vines in his vineyard. We are so gladdened to have your accompaniment on this road to happy destiny.

I pause for my co-worker and will return.

ANATOLIA: There, my children, be at peace and be at one with the wonderfulness that exists within your hearts and your minds because those times that are truly wonderful feelings are not imaginary, they are real and experiential, those times of peace that are not infrequent but ~ depending upon where you find yourself at a given point in life along the life-process-chain if you will ~ you'll find that there are various levels of participation in the peace-making processes; of internalizing that peace.

This is something that I wish to speak about today as something more than a goal, and to reinforce within you that which you already know to be true but frequently discover, that you might not be mindful of that which I'm speaking. What I am speaking of is some-thing that can be portrayed in any number of ways. In the discussions that we've had about 'quiet time,' or 'the stillness,' or any other description you can put on it, I'm wishing to share another perspective that I'm wanting you to realize: that this process that we refer to as stillness, or quiet time, can be referred to by many titles or descriptions, but that it can also be consciously made aware within your working and other parts of your life. This I already mentioned to you, that I wish to reinforce, that it's something that I wish for you to recognize more and more.

A part of what I'm speaking of is part of the feeling of loving warmth and acceptance that you can feel inside by being triggered in any number of ways. This feeling of loving warmth and acceptance is primarily you receiving and accepting the warmth that is within you, and accepting that. That warmth, the living glow, the fire of life, the breath of life, if you will, that is alive and well within you, that gives you reason for being, as well as animation and life to your being, is that which is presented to you from On High, from the living standard of life itself.

It is this life within that I wish for you to treasure perhaps even more than you already do. Only in respect of that light within, that you, at a moment's notice, can recognize and can give homage to, as you, being a receptacle, a place where Christ and the Eternal Father live and dwell within. So when you think of it that way, it is a hallowed place, is it not? The Holy of Holies, the Arc of the Covenant. Many other sacred vessels and locations on your earth and beyond, were totally awe-striking vestiges of the living presence. Your presence is nonetheless striking and awe-inspiring as well for your vestige of the eternal God that lives and breathes within your being has no less a wondrous and mysterious place or object than were hallowed in your working world.

This I wish you to recognize as a truth beyond all truths: that, that which is, is the consciousness that is alive and well within you. This consciousness which is given breath and life and dimension within your being is that which originated within your heavenly Father's creative presence and that which is given light within you.

This too, I wish to reinforce, is that with all of the personality that is uniquely yours and made known to you as the 'operational vehicle,' ~ that is your power-plant within ~ is that life-force that the Father shares with you. So it isnot as if you were simply an automaton, or some kind of a machine that is made ready and willing and able to accept a life-force, that is put in it simply for the mere operation or functionality of that which can contain a life-force, but rather it is a life-force that is uniquely you, made known to you and your heavenly Father as the unique expression that you are, sharing time and space with your Creator Presence at the same time that you yourself occupy that space with your Creator.

I wish foryou to have some improved appreciation for that life-force that is within you and perhaps give it more respect and recognition for what it truly is. A gift of all time and within all creation made itself known as you and your unique expression, here and now, at this time and in this world, when it could have ~ that is, the creative fiat ~ could have chosen to have made your conscious that of anything else but instead made itself known within you as an ascending being to rejoin in consciousness that from which you originated. This, my friend, is the greatest of all gifts. It is the gift. There is no gift greater than that which we speak.

And it is the unification of this within your heart and mind, to know that centrality of your being, and for you to likewise know the interrelationship of all else that exists, as a result of creative fiat, that is simultaneously existing at the same time that each and everyone of you are. This, in fact, could be enough to make one awestruck, to make one stand like a pillar of salt in absolute amazement at that which the Father has made. Start within yourselves as the tiny speck of light. Just one speck of life-force within you is enough to fuel the eternal life cell for all time hence. This one life-force speck is enough to last for an eternity.

So be ever mindful of the uniqueness and the glorious presence that you share here in this space, in this time, in this presence with your life-force within and the heavenly presence that shares this space with you. This is, in part, what the stillness practice is meant to reinforce, and to give recognition to and to give homage to: that which is alive and well within your living presence.

This, I hope, gives you some extra glimpse of what it is we're speaking of. I'll be happy to answer any questions as the time proceeds, but in the meantime return to Tomas' presentation. And I appreciate your listening. Peace be with you.

TOMAS: Thank you, teacher.

The curriculum today has seen the coin from both sides. The coin now is spinning but where it stops nobody knows. What now friends? Are there Questions, topics for discussion or contributions from the student body this afternoon?

Matthew: Just to say 'thank you' Tomas for that teaching of last week and for Janet's role in asking so many pointed questions. It turned out to be preparation for my family and myself and those who are offering loving support in terms in my brother having passed over. So I appreciate that terrific forewarning and preparation that is appreciated.

TOMAS: My friend, I have not authority to know in advance how my lessons will be used. It is a mark of my confidence in my supervisors, Machiventa and Michael, who configure the universe in such a way that we reveal the curriculum that is revealed to us. Thus, yes, you see how this example proves the point of today's lesson, that Janet, the most tiny tulip among you, has stimulated the questions which are able to feed and heal those who reach for greater knowledge of the universe, its ways, and their places within it. There is pattern in deity and I am as amazed as anyone at the unfolding of the pattern that I partake in as you are often astounded at the pattern yoy enjoy in partaking.

But modesty aside, Thank you. It is my pleasure to be your teacher.

Foresight is, however, a skill worth cultivating. Anticipation is a method of extending the momentum of perfection attainment, in action, in e-motion, in movement. There is purposive direction, and cause and effect is a law of the universe. Thus, if certain causes, like the First Cause, are set into motion, they will eventuate in an effect at some point, as surely as the night follows the day. And those who would be willing students of divine leadership would find fascinating study in how to perceive in advance what the Father already knows. Is this not also a dimension of developing your catalyst self - so as to co-create destiny? That was rhetorical. It won't require your response, but if there are responses we are eager to hear them.

Dorenda: That's a really interesting topic. Is it possible to perceive ahead of time what will happen that was the Father's will - or what he already knows? That pretty well blows me away, I'd be interested in that. That would be totally wonderful that we could perceive things ahead of time. Is that through the stillness, is that what you're trying to say?

TOMAS: Anatolia, would you like to have fun?

GROUP: (laughter and comments)

ANATOLIA: You know, what is being discussed, is an opportunity to center yourselves, and basically, be at home within yourselves. A lot of what we're talking about in all of this, in terms of stillness practice ~ and what I'm speaking of in terms of what I have been addressing ~ is to try to add other dimensions of stillness to you that removes it from just a discipline that many people would shy away from, because from some experience, stillness often results in stilted experience, and therefor turns one away from pursuing any further that which seems to take forever to be able to experience anything of experiential growth.

So what I'm speaking of, and I intend to answer your question, is that this stillness practice is mainly an opportunity for you to realize by taking steps into the spirit well within yourself…to realize that all of creation and all of the universe is within you. So that this is experiential both in your heightened states of awareness and also in your conscious states of awareness, so that when you are truly connected to your inner-being which is your life created force within you, and at those moments, just as last week's reading has presented, of those moments of self-recognition when you would recognize what would otherwise be gibberish, of foreign, that 'French fries' is mentioned and all of a sudden that rings true. It's at those moments of self awareness - during the 'French fry moment' that you and your God-force within are at one and are at peace and are aware of one another and are truly at one. So it's in those moments that you can gain recognition and self reinforcement of higher truths which otherwise seem inescapable and beyond reach and certainly beyond this realm of everyday ordinary thought and belief and practice,.

And too, the other discussion in terms of knowing the forethought of God… this is something that you that you can, not just entertain, but that you can imbibe in, be a part of, be at one with. When you know God's will for you, you know that that is only growth opportunity and at oneness. When you know that for yourself, you can in effect know that for others. And that in those moments of annointenment and wisdom for yourself and with others, you are able to foretell, forestall, and other wise foreknow that which is the will of God for others, that you may be at one with as well.

Does this help?

Dorenda: Yes.

ANATOLIA: Know too that it is with this in mind that we're not inviting each and all to open a peanut stand '5-cents a psychic readings' but that this is meant to be in the truly spiritual sense knowing that you have within you of what is good for you and what sense you may gain for others as well. But in that spiritual wisdom that you would know that which is advisable to pass on and that which may not.

Does this help any.

Dorenda: Yes. Thank you.

Thoroah: If I do open one of those psychic stands, I'm going to call it the 'French Fry Moment."
(polite group laughter)

Matthew: The image I got (explaining what he envisioned during the t/ring process)..remember the Peanuts character (Lucy) that set up the little road-side stand. (group reflects on Lucy and Charlie Brown)

TOMAS: This contrasts with the efforts of Anatolia's words but this is the realm of understanding most of you are familiar with. As a result of your experience you can anticipate cause and effect. If you stay up late at night you'll have a harder time waking up in the morning. This is cause and effect. Thus over time you train yourself 'early to bed early to rise,' or whatever behavior it is that you have found to work for you. This however is not necessarily the level of reality we are stressing here, for what works for you as an individual in your human existence, your personal life preferences, tendencies, and so forth, may not be the same standards that are appropriate for others. For as has been mentioned there are many levels of awareness and development. Each individual is given an opportunity to develop his or her own religious experience and much of the kind of scaffolding of the experiential life provides clues to the reality years before the reality itself is able to stand on its own. But that does not eliminate the value of the scaffolding that brings us to the French Fry Moment.

Thus we have here two sets of examples of this theory. The genuineness of this discussion revolves around to the graciousness of relative reality and the truth of ultimate reality for as the divine will is woven into the fiber of the human will the constitution is deitized sufficiently that it begins to operate more and more on a level that is a step beyond the scaffolding and into the reality.

It is easy therefore for those who see with eyes to see to cloud their perspective by their personal experience even while personal experience is necessary to attain that existential stance that is the eye of God, that sees the end from the beginning, that has prophecy within it.

You are potential prophets, each of you. And as you spend time in that state of being that allows for the reflectivity of the divine to become one with you and you with it, your vision is extended beyond this realm and beyond the material cause and effects of time and space to the realm of morontia reality which then becomes the scaffolding for your spirit life as you continue to advance in your eternal career.

The topic may seem somewhat heady for you for a summer afternoon, however it was at your bidding. You wanted to have something substantial to ponder. You have sought, thus you are given.

However I feel it is time to release you for your community rapport. The camping trip last week and the wedding next week are good topics of diversion and reversion.

Enjoy your camaraderie fellow agondonters and take comfort in your association, for nowhere in my frame of reference are you going to be as fully satisfied in your soul as you will be in these relationships that develop as a result of your soul hunger to know more about our eternal parents, our family indeed in the cosmos.

Run along now and enjoy yourselves. And look to the center within for stimulation and sanctuary.

Amen and Farewell.

Group: Thank you Tomas.

Geoff
08-12-2002, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by Geoff
This is something that I wish to speak about today as something more than a goal, and to reinforce within you that which you already know to be true but frequently discover, that you might not be mindful of that which I'm speaking. What I am speaking of is some-thing that can be portrayed in any number of ways. In the discussions that we've had about 'quiet time,' or 'the stillness,' or any other description you can put on it, I'm wishing to share another perspective that I'm wanting you to realize: that this process that we refer to as stillness, or quiet time, can be referred to by many titles or descriptions, but that it can also be consciously made aware within your working and other parts of your life. This I already mentioned to you, that I wish to reinforce, that it's something that I wish for you to recognize more and more.

A part of what I'm speaking of is part of the feeling of loving warmth and acceptance that you can feel inside by being triggered in any number of ways. This feeling of loving warmth and acceptance is primarily you receiving and accepting the warmth that is within you, and accepting that. That warmth, the living glow, the fire of life, the breath of life, if you will, that is alive and well within you, that gives you reason for being, as well as animation and life to your being, is that which is presented to you from On High, from the living standard of life itself.

It is this life within that I wish for you to treasure perhaps even more than you already do. Only in respect of that light within, that you, at a moment's notice, can recognize and can give homage to, as you, being a receptacle, a place where Christ and the Eternal Father live and dwell within. So when you think of it that way, it is a hallowed place, is it not? The Holy of Holies, the Arc of the Covenant. Many other sacred vessels and locations on your earth and beyond, were totally awe-striking vestiges of the living presence. Your presence is nonetheless striking and awe-inspiring as well for your vestige of the eternal God that lives and breathes within your being has no less a wondrous and mysterious place or object than were hallowed in your working world.

This I wish you to recognize as a truth beyond all truths: that, that which is, is the consciousness that is alive and well within you. This consciousness which is given breath and life and dimension within your being is that which originated within your heavenly Father's creative presence and that which is given light within you.

This too, I wish to reinforce, is that with all of the personality that is uniquely yours and made known to you as the 'operational vehicle,' ~ that is your power-plant within ~ is that life-force that the Father shares with you. So it isnot as if you were simply an automaton, or some kind of a machine that is made ready and willing and able to accept a life-force, that is put in it simply for the mere operation or functionality of that which can contain a life-force, but rather it is a life-force that is uniquely you, made known to you and your heavenly Father as the unique expression that you are, sharing time and space with your Creator Presence at the same time that you yourself occupy that space with your Creator.

I wish foryou to have some improved appreciation for that life-force that is within you and perhaps give it more respect and recognition for what it truly is. A gift of all time and within all creation made itself known as you and your unique expression, here and now, at this time and in this world, when it could have ~ that is, the creative fiat ~ could have chosen to have made your conscious that of anything else but instead made itself known within you as an ascending being to rejoin in consciousness that from which you originated. This, my friend, is the greatest of all gifts. It is the gift. There is no gift greater than that which we speak.

And it is the unification of this within your heart and mind, to know that centrality of your being, and for you to likewise know the interrelationship of all else that exists, as a result of creative fiat, that is simultaneously existing at the same time that each and everyone of you are. This, in fact, could be enough to make one awestruck, to make one stand like a pillar of salt in absolute amazement at that which the Father has made. Start within yourselves as the tiny speck of light. Just one speck of life-force within you is enough to fuel the eternal life cell for all time hence. This one life-force speck is enough to last for an eternity.

So be ever mindful of the uniqueness and the glorious presence that you share here in this space, in this time, in this presence with your life-force within and the heavenly presence that shares this space with you. This is, in part, what the stillness practice is meant to reinforce, and to give recognition to and to give homage to: that which is alive and well within your living presence.



My dear George and Thomas,

I think this message makes it pretty clear that the Urantia folks have just the same path as us. Yes they use sometimes different terms, but this message makes it quite clear that the stillness practice I have mentioned before is the very same as praying for Divine Love.

Much love,
Geoff.

alyn
08-12-2002, 06:43 PM
Brother Geoff wrote: "I think this message makes it pretty clear that the Urantia folks have just the same path as us".

For me, also, this message tends to substantiate the Truth that there is only one Way that leads to at-onement with our Father. Which makes perfect sense on a mental level, too, in that there is only One Father, One Divine Love.

Ultimately, all souls must ask for the Divine Love in order to share our Father's Substance of Love, which makes us eternal beings--angels. (therefore, one Way) There may be many paths of soul development that lead to this moment, but up to this moment is the farthest 'distance' that we can 'travel' on any road. Then we must ask for His Love in order to take even one, tiny step further, and our Father does the rest through His Holy Spirit. Then, it's "on we go/grow" from that moment we ask and receive.

love, alyn

George
08-13-2002, 03:46 PM
What is a Midwayer?

Geoff
08-13-2002, 10:46 PM
My dear George,

They are a created spiritual being. There are not many of them, and they are about 40,000 years old. They do not have a "growth" path like ours. Their role is to help us here on earth, and they do a lot of healing without ever being seen. Apparently that chinese guy who "operates" without using stitches has a bunch of these guys helping him, and he does not know. My friend George Barnard has written five books about them. He has been talking to them for 30 years, long before he found out they are mentioned in Urantia.

They appear very like us, quite a bit taller, but are either red, yellow or blue in colour, and are extremely adept with messing up electrical stuff, if they care to. One rang my door bell to be "invited" in. He communicates with them in a very deep trance state, which is maybe why most folks never see them.

much love,
Geoff.

Geoff
08-13-2002, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by alyn
Ultimately, all souls must ask for the Divine Love in order to share our Father's Substance of Love, which makes us eternal beings--angels. (therefore, one Way)

My dear Alyn,

While I agree with you, where folks get tripped up, is that this "one way" looks very different, until you TRY it. I have found two differently named spiritual practices which have the same result.

One was the stillness mentioned by TeaM, the other is in the book channelled by Jesus, Love Without End. My point, which I have not had acceptance of is that you won't find the very same words ie Divine Love as we know it, because that is our paradigm. These folks have a different paradigm, but it goes to the same place. :p

What I particularly liked about the message above, is that it made that very point. Fundamentalists will never find commonality, only those with truly open hearts.

much love,
Geoff.

Thomas
08-14-2002, 02:26 AM
Dear Geoff,
I find your points of view interesting and refreshing, as well as the message you just posted. However, I don't agree with your analysis.

The information speaks of an "improved appreciation for that life-force that is within you", as if the force is there by starting point, which is contrary to the concept of Divine Love as a gift from outside, not part of one's being by starting point. As far as I see, there is no mention of a need to activate a longing or request something from God or some external Source. I suspect this could come from the fact that the originator of the message does not know exactly what the Gift of Divine Love is, but may have experienced and received it himself, to a certain extent, and thus trying his best to explain how to attain and progress in it. I could be wrong, but I don't see the explanation "simply using different terms" as plausible as you do, because it's not about different terms, to me, but an essential divergence in concept.

As Alyn pointed out, this, as well as other spiritual teachings, could be a valid path leading up to the moment where one becomes ready to ask for the Gift. However, the message does not by itself convey the importance of inviting this Gift into one's being. My guess would be that the originator of the message thinks that the Gift is in every soul by starting point, and that all you have to do is recognize it - which is a misunderstanding, basically, as the Gift is very far from something innate. It reminds me of the common New Age idea that everything is a big soup, without essential borders between souls, God, the universe, etc. A major difference between that kind of thinking and the Divine Love teachings is that, according to the DL teachings, we - souls - are disconnected and not part of God and His Love by starting point, and that it is up to each and every one of us to decide if we want to become part of that Source. That is, every soul has a major choice to make.

Geoff, don't let my skepticism bother you. Feel free to feed us with more if you want, and I hope you will respond to my reasoning.

-Thomas

Geoff
08-14-2002, 02:32 AM
Dear Thomas,

I think that you are quite simply too tied to the Padgett paradigm to be able to perceive other paths. But, hey, who cares, as long as you are on a path. For myself, I am determined to unveil as many of these paths as I can find. It is what interests me.

There are many ways to Father, and even folks with no concept at all can receive much "Love". Who says it really is Love? Well, I agree it is something, and it feels good, so Love is a good name, but it's just a name. It could as well be a life force. And where does it come from? Well everything comes from the Source. Urantia teaches we each have a "fragment" of God within us. You could find a Padgett message that disagrees with that. I don't much care, to be honest.

The point that you may have missed about the message above, is the the RESULT is the same. And I discovered this by observing how loving those folks are, and I am sure they have the Father's Love, not simply natural love. Then I set about listening to what they do, and seeing how it affects us. The warm feeling described in the message is quite simply Divine Love. They don't call it that, but that's what it is.

much love,
Geoff.

alyn
08-14-2002, 06:50 AM
Dear brothers Geoff & Thomas,

Geoff wrote: "My point, which I have not had acceptance of is that you won't find the very same words ie Divine Love as we know it, because that is our paradigm".

I do accept your point, brother Geoff, but words being the limited "tools" they are, I see that I didn't make that clear. Another channeled work, "A Course in Miracles" expresses sort of the same thing I was mentioning in my post in the preface of the "lessons" part of the book: "Forgetting all our misperceptions, and with nothing from the past to hold us back, we can remember God. Beyond this, learning cannot go. When we are ready, God Himself will take the final step in our return to Him".

I was reminded of this passage while reading the message you posted. This passage could refer to your point, too. No matter what words we may use, our Father knows when we are ready and, through His Holy Spirit, He gives us His Love, Substance, Life-Force, what ever we may uniquely "call" It or whatever we may understand It to be at any moment. Even, as you say, whether we know we have asked for It or not.

But, then this also supports brother Thomas's point that there has to be some seeking of an external source to reach transformation after any "path" that prepares us for this moment. Our "homing pigeon" instincts?? Hee.

It is difficult to know for certain that the persons in fellowship understood that our Father's Substance comes only from Him and is not within our own souls when He Creates them. In our condition of free will, our Father allows us to choose to "come" to Him for His Love, or not, by any "path" we choose, consciously or not. At least it is not clear to me by reading the channeling whether these brothers and sisters understand this or not. But, as you say, I don't care if they do because I feel and recognize Love in their fellowship. :)

The more Love and brother/sisterhood the merrier, yes? These people seem to be Loving and earnestly trying to improve themselves and the world they live in. We can all do no less, or no more, than this, I'm thinking.

love you all much,
alyn

Geoff
08-14-2002, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by alyn
But, then this also supports brother Thomas's point that there has to be some seeking of an external source to reach transformation after any "path" that prepares us for this moment. Our "homing pigeon" instincts?? Hee.



My dear Alyn,

The only way that you and Thomas will understand what I say, is if you try "stillness", which I have not, simply because i don't have a full description, and/or you try "entering the soul" which I have tried. This latter method is in a book channelled by Jesus. I had to answer the obvious point, when I read that book. Why would Jesus spend three whole months with someone, in discussion of any subject at all, and not mention Divine Love? Good question? Answer, because he set out a DIFFERENT paradigm. So, I tried it out, and guess what, you get the same sensation as when praying for Divine Love. So here is a spiritual practice that asks you to imagine yourself entering your soul. And it works? The very strong impression I am getting that Father has provided maybe dozens of paradigms.

much love,
Geoff.

Kay Ann Ray
08-14-2002, 05:38 PM
Dear Folks,

I have observed that *words* are inadaquate for explaining ones *feelings.* So, I guess this is why there are so many misunderstandings in our internet communications. I am very happy to see that we keep trying to share our feelings anyway, in spite of the different view points.

I feebly tried to show that the word *meditation* sometimes means *stillness* and that it's an *individual* exercise. I have explained to seeking souls that, " I cannot pray for Divine Love to enter your soul. And you cannot long for me to attain at-onement with God."

I know that when a person is humble and sincere, and wants to know-the-Truth, these qualities and longings open the soul to the reception of God's Grace. In other languages and religions they use different expressions, of course, but their interpretaion might be similar. And as we know, "It doesn't matter what it's called because it's an *individual matter* between each soul and the Soul of God."

I agree with Alyn about the *homing pigeon* idea; that we have been created with a consciousness of our relationship to God and that it will eventually *kick in* and we will long for greater closeness in that relationship.

I agree with Thomas; I sincerely do believe that there is only one way we can activate the Christ Potential in our souls, by being blessed by the Holy Spirit which conveys the Grace, Substance of God's Love, to our souls in response to our longings. (Sometimes people don't even know exactly what it is that they are longing for, it seems to me, but their souls' desires have been activated.)

I agree with Geoff, that it's loving of us to look for and see where we can agree with other religions, especially when the result is that they are becoming more loving people, more tolerant, kind, patient, understanding, giving, caring and accepting of others with their shortcomings and differences. What more can we ask of anyone? This will help create a more peaceful and harmonious world.

I've heard that many people believe that we are created with a "Divine Spark." And if I want to be magnanimous, I can pretend that it is the "Potential to become Divine!" If people believe that *God is within,* even though I might say that I don't have the same understanding, I believe that it is our responsibility to accept them as our brothers and sisters; we know that they are children of the same, one and only, God.

I have faith that we are making progress in our spiritual development. I know that I have better feelings about myself, and am overcoming negative patterns. So I will continue praying for God's Divine Love; continue longing to come closer into at-onement with our Creator and His Will for me. I am sure that soulful desires come in many forms, more than we would be able to describe. But it is still up to the *individual child* to activate his and her own inner desires to develop their own potentials.

May God continue blessing us with abundant Love! May our faith continue to increase in geometrical proportion! May we become clearer channels for the angels guidance and give our pure love in each and every one of our projects and activities.

Keep up all your good work and prayers (meditations, stillness, inner searchings, and desires to know the Truth, etc.) Let's also keep praying to be guided to a wonderful meeting place.

Your friend and sister in the Christ Love, Kathryn

P.S. Geoff, in answer to your question, Why would Jesus spend 3 months in discussion without mentioning Divine Love? I have observed that the Celestials can only deliver messages which can be accepted by the medium; so it's an imperfect "science," if it can be called that. But as we progress in the Love, we become changed, we become more wise and capable of receiving higher Truths. IMHO. I am very happy for you that the *entering the soul* exercise worked for you! Perhaps some people would find another exercise easier to apply. K

Hans
08-14-2002, 06:55 PM
In a trance message, Jesus commented that he works also with "other groups." I am dying with curiosity who they are...

Much love,

Hans

alyn
08-14-2002, 11:13 PM
Dear sisters and brothers,

Hugs to all. I am thinking that we are all agreeing, really. We are (as I've witnessed in our exchanges with each other via the net) lovingly accepting of our brothers and sisters in any soul condition that they happen to be in at any moment. Even, if they are not in so loving soul conditions, yes?

No human or groups of humans have a "patent" on the Way to at-onement with our Father, i.e. salvation. Yet every soul knows, has that longing sometime in there life as sister Kathryn says, to become closer to a "higher" being than ourselves. To become fulfilled and at peace is another way of describing this longing.

I distinguished the many ways of seeking and the many methods of prayer for our Father's Love as "different" paths that all lead to the moment when we are ready and willing to accept at-onement with our Father. I also distinguished that the purpose of these paths, of misperception or more true perception of who and what we are and our relationship with our Father, is to develop our souls to the point where we are able to willingly receive at-onement with our Father. Still, these are very minor distinctions that hardly mean anything at all in the long run--in reaching the end result of all of this longing and seeking, imho.

The one Way is the only Way because ALL "ways" lead to our Father, as He is All there Is. :) That is more what I mean when I say that there is only one Way. Or, many "ways" and only one goal, at-onement with our Father could be another way to express the fact that our Father is All there Is.

Brother Hans has made an intriguing question. I'm thinking that Jesus works with all people who are in fellowship and seeking to develop their souls and so become closer to our Father, eventually becoming at-one with Him. This means the more "traditional" religions of the world and the many denominations, etc. that includes the groups who channel messages from the spirit world, too. Even the "pagan" religions, probably. (Although not any groups that deliberately worship harmful acts to others and cause fear and pain, etc.)

We may even be surprised to find out, if we are graced with an answer to Hans question that Jesus and our Celestial family also work with groups who may be considered in our understanding as secular (i.e. non-religious) groups working to better themselves and the mortal world through secular social work and so make it a more benevolent, loving and nurturing place for every human being. I'm guessing, here, but the possibility that Jesus and our angel brothers and sisters work with all people/groups to help them become in harmony with our Father's Will doesn't seem to be impossible or even very unlikely, to me.

I'm not really disputing brother Geoff's or anyone else's point, and know that there is probably myriad ways to "ask" for at-onement with our Father and myriad methods we can use to open our souls for this transforming event. In fact, it is rather funny that I've filled up so much space with words trying to say I agree! Hee. :)

Love,
your sister alyn

rostaman
08-15-2002, 05:08 AM
jung says; not responsible for incorrect tab or lyrics
i thought you were young, and it doesn't matter to me when we meet better sooner than later, love jung.
forgive my actions for i am human relieve my anger with your kind thoughts and stop the pain please put out the fire.

Kay Ann Ray
08-15-2002, 06:28 PM
Dear divine coworkers,

Even though we may not be *divine* yet, we are working toward that goal. And we are devoted to helping the angels broadcast the *Good News* about the availability of *God's Gift* which has the power to change the condition of our souls into new creations, becoming born-again in Love. And the Way to obtain that Gift, through the sincere, prolonged heartfelt longings of humble souls to develop their higher spiritual qualities of love.

I agree with Alyn, that Jesus and a huge band of Celestial angels work with as many groups as they can, to bring influences to bear, to help them turn to God and develop desires to do His Will in their lives. I believe that when the good spirits, who have been working with a particular group, feel that it is ready to take steps toward learning higher truths, the Celestials are called upon to bring their guidance and influences upon these seeking souls.

We have been told that spirits in the natural heavens who are considering embarking onto the higher PathWay, and who may have already started praying for Divine Love, are sometimes asked by the Celestials to help guide and protect certain seeking souls who have shown promise, or interest in learning Truth, and are longing for at-onement with God. (Allah, Jehovah, Higher Power, Creator, whatever name they use to represent the Over-Soul)

I believe that God Hears all prayers, even small undefined longings for protection from harm. And that when a cry for help goes out to Him, He responds by sending Helpers right away. So it seems to me that the Celestials and good spirits are working overtime, everyday, to help this suffering planet develop greater love, caring, kindness, patience, tolerance, acceptance, etc.

But, of course, God gave His children *free will* (oops!) And even He will not interfere with our free will choices. So there is no way that we can bring someone into harmony with having *compassion for others* when they have decided to be vengful and angry. I do believe that *good spirits* attempt to bring these hateful people into harmony with love, but that if they are not in the least bit interested, they do not "throw pearls to swine."

This is the way "I feel about it" anyway, in the present condition of my spiritual development and understanding. I am very happy to be in communication with other souls who are seeking Truth and longing to develop the highest potential of their souls.

Thank you Alyn for your loving comments. Thank you Thomas, Geoff and Hans. I am looking forward to meeting many of you at the 2003 DLF Meeting. Keep in touch. With love, Kathryn

alyn
08-17-2002, 04:14 PM
Dear brother rostaman,

Welcome. I'm looking forward to "meeting" with another child of our Father here on the board. Thought we'd "hear" your "voice" again. I hope to "hear" it soon. Check in and let us know what's up in your part of the world lately.

love ya,
your sister alyn

Mark
08-23-2002, 07:11 PM
Dear brother Thomas,

I agree with everything you said.

This feeling of loving warmth and acceptance is primarily you receiving and accepting the warmth that is within you.

Ay, there's the rub. And when I saw the title, "The Presence Within" I knew we were in trouble for this precise reason. "The Presence without," now that would have piqued my hopes. But, alas.

... but rather there are no doors, there are no windows ...

No door? "And he that seeks finds, and to him that knocks it shall be opened" (Luke 11:10). But they seek not, as they believe they already have the "Life-force" within them, and that this suffices.

And for all of those who are no longer with us, they are also at one with you and with the Father

They talk about at-Onement, but the term is misleading here, as they are not referring to the at-Onement achieved in the only Way prescribed by the Father, but instead believe themselves at-One with the Father for no greater reason than being part of His Universe. Indeed, very New Age.

These messages are not malicious, of course; not are they harmful per se. Lack of self-love is an important block towards receiving the Divine Love. So, messages which stress the importance of self-love, and progress of the soul, all these messages are important. And it may well be possible that people reading about feeling love towards God, will acquire the Divine Love. But I think you would be hard-pressed to find real Divine Love teachings in this TeaM work.

I would not worry too much about your alleged skepticism, Thomas. It kinda goes with the territory. I go by an old Latin saying, Rectum est index sui et obliqui, freely translated: The line which shows itself to be straight shows also what line is crooked.

Much Love,

Your brother in Christ,

- Mark

InkyWhip
08-23-2002, 11:10 PM
Wow,

I have found the message Geoff posted to be very interesting.

Really, it gets down more to semantics than anything else. That
one could see 'connecting' with God as going within, instead of
'reaching out' is a matter of description, and not practice.

After all, didn't the Master note that prayers to him are properly
received by God?

The only danger I perceive is the possibilty of conceiving that we
are Gods, but that is only from a very limited view of a few posts,
and could be very well dealt with in other teachings... I'm sure
Geoff knows more about that.

Otherwise, I'm not sure it matters. If any one of us 'went within'
and 'connected' with that part of our Souls, having received
Divine Love, and thus a part of God's Substance, aren't we really
'connecting' with our Divine Mother anyway?

Even now, I wonder at whether such a means of envisioning the
connection does not benefit us more than thinking of ourselves as
being 'not' connected with God, and needing to do so. Having
received ANY of God's Substance, we are connected, period.
Sometimes I think the biggest block we have to fully realizing this
connection is the idea that we are so far from it that we will not
reach it. When, if we see God when we look at our own Divinely
germinated souls, we can see that which is real and permanent,
while the part which we hold on to, the created part, fades away.

Even though every living thing depends upon something outside
of itself for energy, whether through food, or sunlight, or
whatever, when the food, or light, is taken in to the living thing,
it actually becomes a part of the physical substance of that thing.

I agree with Geoff, those who follow these practices are seeking
to connect with God through the embodying of Divine Substance,
under whatever heading we wish to call it. Though differences in
terminology and other beliefs may make it difficult for discourse,
I am happy that there are many paths to reach God in this way!

:D

Incarnadine

Inkling countdown: 123 days to go.

Geoff
08-24-2002, 09:40 AM
Urantia Book

3:4.6 Mortal man cannot possibly know the infinitude of the heavenly Father. Finite mind cannot think through such an absolute truth or fact. But this same finite human being can actually feel -- literally experience -- the full and undiminished impact of such an infinite Father's LOVE. Such a love can be truly experienced, albeit while quality of experience is unlimited, quantity of such an experience is strictly limited by the human capacity for spiritual receptivity and by the associated capacity to love the Father in return.

alyn
08-24-2002, 04:49 PM
This passage from the Urantia book 'speaks' to me as a very specific disclosure of the Gift of our Father's Love that is available to all humans now. Although this passage doesn't explain that sincere, regular prayer to our Father is the key to experiencing His Love as well as the key to gaining the condition of being more receptive of His Love and more able to love Father in return.

But, then again maybe prayer and its effect on our souls is explained somewhere else in this book? Or, maybe the practice of "being still" is this explanation of prayer in different words than we might be used to hearing and that only seems to be "missing" in the above verses.

We would probably be very surprised by the actual number of souls who have recieved the Divine Love, as we refer to It most often, because they have chosen to seek It. I would say again that there are many 'paths' to One destination, which is at-onement with our Father through the transformation of our souls by His Love.

These passages of the Urantia book are more good news, to me. :)

love, alyn