How do we Receive God's Love?

[doug]

In another thread this question came up, and it seemed to deserve a thread of its own. Here are some posts that lay out the question at hand:

I wrote:

Do,

I was right there with you, enjoying (and agreeing with) every bit of your fascinating post, till I reached almost the last sentence:

"Our lower self has convinced us that we must pray for God's Divine Love. The soul will just be in this Love."

A flag went down, as they say in football. Over the years I have come to see the belief that we don't need to pray for God's love as a natural path belief. I see the need to pray for God's love as one of the single most distinctive differences between the divine path and the natural.

Of course, maybe we are using different definitions of "prayer," because in the next line you say, "May we drink fully of His Love and manifest this Love a reality in this physical nature for all to see." In my thinking, soulful prayer for God's love is synonymous with "drinking fully of His Love."

Can you clarify your meaning for me?

Love,
Doug



Do responded:

Dear Doug,

Perhaps my choice for words was as confused as my thoughts. But I think we are saying the same thing per your last statement, "In my thinking, soulful prayer for God's love is synonymous with "drinking fully of His Love."

Keep in mind that what I tried to convey is my experience and since my soul is not yet fully transformed, however, I am progressing. So during this not yet complete transformation of soul, it will be difficult to detect of what degree is the nature of the lower self interfering with us and with our prayer for Divine Love. This is difficult for me to explain. But during my weekend retreat awhile back, I prayed and afterward realized that my thought and attitude during the prayer was different from previous times in that, I was just "there". There was no asking for God for help, for blessing for DL. I was just there 'absorbing' it, taking it, drinking it. It was like it was my right and that there was no need for the asking. That I believe was purely the soul. A son and/or daughter of God does not have to long for His Love when His Love is fully given. A longing soul is still a lost soul, (and I am still longing for sure!) When one prays, "dear God of Love to help me to receive your very Divine Love fully," for example, there is an unspoken far, distant connection or trying to connect to this not yet known God. This is what I believe the lower nature or self has distorted our belief, our confidence, or that it still acts as a mediator, a barrier between the soul and its Creator. You give a child a candy and the child will likely take it from you freely. On the contrary, you give 'a candy' to an adult, and all sorts of thoughts will likely run through his/her mind.

Gosh, I hope I had made some sense, or perhaps, you can help clarify my thought.

Thanks, Doug.
__________________
DN




And Inky contributed:

As far as the last point, which Doug addressed, I also had a
thought there, but it is somewhat different from Doug's.

New Thought teaches to 'pray' something into existence by
envisioning that what is 'asked for' is not asked for, but actually
IS. Your thought made me reflect on the analogy Jesus used...
(I think...hmm, or was this from another source) of us being
fish surrounded by the Love like the water they live in...no need
to 'ask' for it, just drink it in! Be awed and amazed at the way in
which God has arranged it to be, if you like, not withholding
something from us, waiting for us to ask, but providing it in
overwhelming abundance...if we would but realize it!

Thanks much, teacher.

Inky

[DTNguyen]

Hi Doug,

Before we dove into this topic, I think it is necessary to define or attempt to define what is Divine Love? Maybe someone can dig through all the messages and post how Divine Love has been defined. In the mean while, I need to go somewhere for awhile and also need time to reflect on this topic.

Much love to all.

[InkyWhip]

Do,

It seems that a simple definition of Divine Love is not so easily found, since it is a term used to describe that which is conveyed to our souls by the Holy Spirit. In fact, a reading of chapter 7 of
Angelic Revelations, Book One is probably in order.

http://www.truths.com/ch7-1.htm

However, I have excerpted many statements which may be
relevant to our discussion:

Jesus:

As the prayers of the sincere, earnest soul ascend to the Father, that soul becomes opened up to the inflowing of this Love. The soul's perceptions then enlarge and come more in rapport with the conditions or influence that always accompanies the presence of this Love. Accordingly, Its entrance into the soul becomes easier and, in Its reception, more perceptible to the soul sense. The more earnest the prayer and sincere the longings, the sooner faith comes.
Divinity never gives place to that which is not of the Divine. Man is working towards the attainment of the Divine when he pursues the Way provided for obtaining the Divine Nature. And as he advances and obtains a portion of this Divine, no matter how small, he can never retrace his steps to the extent of ridding himself of the presence of this Transforming Essence.
But this does not mean that a man may not lose the consciousness of the existence of this Essence within his soul, for he frequently does. The indulgence of his carnal appetites and evil desires will place him in a condition where he may cease to have a consciousness of the existence of the Divine Love in his soul. And to himself, he will be as if he had never had any experience of the change that I speak of.
a soul that has once received this Divine Essence cannot be lost, even though its awakening from its dormant condition and its realization of the presence and life of this Love may be greatly delayed by sin and error and misdirected beliefs. And much suffering and darkness may have to be endured by the soul that is plagued by such conditions.

John:

This Love is the greatest thing in all the world, and the only thing that can make man at-one with the Father, and change the soul of man, as it has existed since his creation, into a Divine Substance filled with the Essence of the Father.
The Divine Love is so abundant that It may be possessed by all men by the mere seeking and the sincere longing for Its inflowing. But man must understand that It is not his by matter of right, nor is It ever forced upon him, but comes only in response to the sincere, earnest prayer of a soul that is filled with longings for Its coming.

But men must not believe that all love is the Divine Love, for It is very different in Its Substance and Qualities from all other loves.

But this Divine Love is not a part of man's nature, nor can he obtain or possess It except he seek for It. It comes from without and is not developed from within.

In closing, let me repeat that It is the greatest thing in all God's universe; and not only the greatest but also the sum of all things. For from It flows every other thing that brings peace and happiness.

Samuel the prophet:

I know that the worries of life prevent you from realizing the influence of this Great Love which is surrounding you, and which is ready and waiting to fill your soul to its fullness. But if you will pray more to the Father and exercise your faith, you will find that your worries will lessen, and peace will come to you in such abundance and beauty that you will feel like a new man.

Love worketh all things that man can wish for or conceive of, and more besides. Paul's description of Love, and the wonderful qualities and conditions that emanate from It, does not contain all Its emanations and resultant happiness.

Solomon:

Prayer and faith on the part of mortals, and Love - the Divine Love - on the part of God. The latter is waiting, and the former causes It to enter into the souls of men.

Jesus again:

Then, understanding what this Love is, and that man must seek for It, and what Its effect upon the soul of man is, it becomes very important that man should make the obtaining of It the one great object of his aspirations and desires. For when he possesses It to a degree that makes him at-one with the Father, he ceases to be a mere man and becomes of a nature of soul existence that makes him Divine. He incorporates many qualities of the Father, the chief of which is, of course, Love. And this also causes him to absolutely realize the fact of his Immortality.

I thought it best to show to man that his dependence upon himself, which is his dependence on this natural love, is not sufficient and adequate to bring him into a condition of happiness, even on earth, and is therefore totally inadequate to bring him into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Of course, on earth, there are many circumstances and surroundings and limitations on man that prevent the free workings of the soul, in the way of aspirations and faith, that do not exist after man becomes an inhabitant of the spirit world. But nevertheless, and notwithstanding all these drawbacks and stumbling blocks of the earth life, the soul of man may receive this Divine Love without limitations, and to an abundance that will make him a New Creature, as the scriptures say.

The Father is all Goodness and Love and Truth and Forgiveness and Kindness, and the souls of men become possessed of these qualities when they receive and possess the Divine Love. When man is sincere and faithful, and possesses these qualities, they never leave him or change. And when this brotherhood shall be founded on them, it will be built on a rock, and will continue to live and become purer and firmer in its binding effect. And in the great results that will flow from it will be the Divine Nature of the Father for its foundation stone, which is without variableness or change, and never disappointing.

As I have said, this Love is waiting for every man to possess who sincerely seeks It with true soul aspiration. It is not a part of a man, but It surrounds and envelops every man. At the same time, It forms no part of him, unless his longings and prayers have opened up his soul so that It may flow in and infill him with Its Presence.

Let men turn their thoughts and aspirations to God, and in truth, sincerely and with faith, pray to the Father for an inflowing into their souls of His Divine Love, and they will always find that the Father will bestow His Love upon them in accordance with the extent of their aspirations and longings. These longings are mediums for opening up their souls to the workings of the Holy Spirit which, as I have before written, is the messenger of God for the conveying of His Divine Love from His fountainhead of Love to the souls of the prayerful and aspiring men.

Inky

I will comment more on some of the things that rereading this
material has brought to mind in relation to different threads we
have been discussing lately shortly.

[Amada Reza]

Dear brothers in Christ,

I believe there is truth in what our brother Do wrote about his experience of just "being" in the Divine Love when he was intentionally praying that weekend. It seems that with faith, which is one of the soul's perceptions, we are aware of God's Love constantly surrounding us, as the water we would "swim" in if we were fish. This does not mean that we discontinue our prayers, but the perceptions of the soul take over and the communication is easier and more constant.

I get the impression that God's Divine Love never stops flowing outward from His Soul as long as there is one child who asks for it. We understand that Divine Love is the Substance of His Soul, His most essential Nature. When we become at-one with His Soul in Divine Love we become intricately connected Soul-to-soul, and through faith and love (the perceptions of our soul) the flow of Love between us remains constant. It is like we become twins! Nice thought, huh? :-)

Love you all so much!

Amy

[JustLis]

I still just can't manage to get there, though....

I know I'm a very literal, concrete person, and I try to intellectualize everything, so I understand that this is a barrier....

But on many, many occasions over the last several years, I have prayed with the deep soul longing.... Bringing a great deel of tears and emotion that I normally keep very tightly locked down.... And yet, nothing.... At those times when I allow myself to be so vulnerable, all I feel is just how intensely alone I am....

Do you have ideas on how to make some kind of connection?

Lis

[Geoff]

Dear Lis,

Well I think as we are such a small group, perhaps we don't yet have enough data to generalise.

In my case I felt severe pain, and this lasted 18 months before I felt warm and snug. Others then doubted that my experience was valid, because nobody else ever felt pain. But then Jesus actually commented on my situation, and I felt heaps better. Maybe you too have to get through something, maybe letting go is good, and you should let it happen more often?

I gather some experiments were conducted at the last retreat, and so those that were there might comment.

One thing we do know is that lack of real self love is a huge barrier. It is pretty much that if you can't love yourself, you can't feel Father's Love either. We did get a great message on this very topic, but it was not recorded.

Much love,
Geoff.

[alyn]

Dear sister Lis,

No matter what you feel, you are never alone. :) I've felt the same at times, intensly alone, but later realized that I couldn't possibly be alone, ever. But, as you say, rationalizing is not the same as feeling.

But, just think...somewhere across a vast ocean, another sister-soul (me :) ) has perhaps felt lonely and disconnected at the same time as you! So, here again, you were not really alone. ;)

I love you and the Father loves you, for sure. Sometimes, a connection may not be all "warm and glowing", as was Geoff's initial experience. It could be that the connection is your vulnerability in those moments. You've let out, shared with our Father, those emotions that you say you keep "locked down".

Father is there to share our sadness as well as our joy. He remains with us through all of the "growing pains" of our soul. I don't always feel that I make a connection every time I pray, but often I find that I am more peaceful--even if I don't notice any greater feeling of peace and hope, inspiration, faith, joy...whatever, until days later.

Keep praying. "Talk" with our Father often during your daily routines. Get used to our Father being around you/with you always because S/He is. Share your thoughts with Father often. I do this. Somehow, this makes it easier to pray, for me.

Just wanted you to know that I love you. :)
your sister in Christ,
alyn

[InkyWhip]

Dear sister Lis,

If I remember, Holly Bianco prayed consistently for five years or so
before 'feeling' Divine Love filling her. It would seem that what
one may experience with respect to some perception of one's
soul being filled with Love varies tremendously.

Being quite intellectual myself, I often find more sensations
associated with 6th and 7th chakra activation than heart-based
sensations. I guess I'm stuck 'in my head'.

It would be worrying to me, also, however, not to have some
means of gauging whether I am receiving DL...no little box
showing up on my computer screen showing 'download progress'.
(That little image was shared with me by someone in my spirit
band, aka: the Marx Brothers)

:hugs Lis

Inky

[George]

Dear Lis,

My experience has been that through earnest Prayer The Fathers love never fails to come.
The things is to really understand the word Sincere and Earnest.
To me what that means with all my might.

Keep going, maybe youre not going hard enough?

Once you have received any portion of the Fathers Divine Love and you continue to pray you will feel a 'soul longing' at first this can be mistaken by the Love and can be somewhat painful. You learn to control this as time goes on.

Hope that helps a bit.

With Love,


George

[InkyWhip]

Brothers and Sisters:

When I read through the chapter, from which I have posted
excerpts above, I noted that Jesus indicates that prayer for
Divine Love increases our capacity to perceive its reception, as
well as making its reception easier, in other words, our souls
both seem to develop a greater degree of faith that the Love is
there for us to ‘drink in’ as well as a higher degree of soul
aspirations to receive the Love.

The interesting thing that I have found through personal
experience is that attempting to ‘reign in’ my tendencies of
focusing on what I thought people were doing wrong, (versus
empathizing with what needs they have that were not being
fulfilled that may cause them to act in certain ways) and to
attempt to reach or sustain a level of 'Community' solely
intellectually is not very likely.

Through receiving more DL and altering the will of the soul in such
a manner as is mentioned by Jesus and others in the messages
natural love and the desires that man naturally has are gradually
displaced by Divine Nature, and make the establishment of
Brotherhood, or Community, instead of a fleetingly temporal
event, much more permanent. Perhaps the only useful means to
establish Brotherhood is through pursuing the reception of
sufficient Divine Love to assure oneself that such error is
minimized, allowing the perpetuation of such a state of
Community.

It would seem that, if we are to move in a direction that I think
many of us want to and reach a state in which we, as Jesus
says, “incorporate many qualities of the Father, the chief of which
is, of course, Love.” Then those who choose to do so may want
to intensify our prayer for Divine Love.

To some degree, I think it is both our poor self-images that lead
us to feel that we need to be in a certain state, to 'petition' God
for Divine Love, versus to act on the desire for it spontaneously,
like breathing in...and to count on the Love being there, like
oxygen, as well as our fear of what our lives will be like as we
get closer and closer to doing so.

Inky

[Amada Reza]

Dear Lis,

It seems that to have the sense of receiving Divine Love we first need know we are lovable, and thereby loved. :-) You can count me as your sister who loves you and appreciates you. "Just one voice singing in the darkness" is one song that lights that darkness. I believe we would be surprised to know how many little lights are "out there." :-)

Inky,

I agree that our poor self image prevents us from knowing that God is right beside us, ready to take our hand. A child's faith is such that she just jumps in God's lap for a big hug. :-)

Yummy! :-)

Lots of love to you and yours, dear ones,

Amy

[JustLis]

Thanks to all of you for your experiences, thoughts, and advice....

You're right that a lot of emotion is still locked down, but that is of necessity.... So I'll need to find some kind of workaround for that....

Five years? Whew.... I have to admit I haven't been consistent about prayer for anything approaching that length of time.... I have been as consistent as every night prayer for perhaps two months at a stretch, but just feel absolutely nothing -- as if my thoughts and prayers and emotions are just filing into a vacuum.... Perhaps it is going to take a stronger and more consistent effort on my part, and that is something concrete I can do....

As for loving myself, LOL.... That's always been a challenge, but I know I'm not alone in facing that -- and know that several of you have always faced that challenge, as well.... I do know in my head that I'm not alone in this, and appreciate the heartfelt messages of togetherness.... I really like this community, where the love and care are so real....

I'll keep your suggestions in mind and keep making efforts to find that love....

Lis

[doug]

Hi Lisa,

I'm just in the process of editing a new book of the Padgett messages, so I have some of them very fresh in my mind. Particularly a few that explain how the first prayers for God's Love may not actually bring the love, but will instead bring to bear forces which will help prepare you to receive the Love.

This is because, quite simply, many of us are not in a condition to receive the love when we first pray for it. Our natural love needs to be purified to some level before our soul can open up to this greater love.

So, at this stage, our prayers might not result in earth-shaking experiences of Pentecostal transformation. Such prayers are more like the work of some miners trapped in a collapsed mine, chipping away at a wall of stone, struggling for their freedom.

Hopelessness is surely one of the greatest enemies at this stage. But what may keep hope alive is the realization that someone is digging from the other side.

That "someone" is God's Angels, who do the will of the Father, in answer to your prayers, by helping prepare you for the time when you will be ready to receive God's Love in its fullness.

So, believe that your prayers are working, even if they are not producing the effects that you think they should -- even if you feel absolutely nothing immediately after praying. You can consider the testimony of the angels, and of those who walk this path with you, that your every soulful prayer is heard -- and answered. You might also keep a running tally of the positive changes that are occurring in you and in your life, as tangible evidence that something is "happening."

What often works best for me, more than formal "prayers," is simply going through my day "prayerfully," kind of like that guy in Fiddler on the Roof, just talking with God as I go about my business. At first, maybe you're just "acting as if" He hears you, and then at some point you come to realize that He really does. And then at some point you begin to think that you might actually be hearing Him...

Love,
Doug

[Geoff]

Dear Lis,

I have been as consistent as every night prayer for perhaps two months at a stretch

I read the prayer three times a day for three weeks before I had any effects at all. I have a feeling one needs a very concentrated effort initially, and I would perhaps suggest once a day is not enough. I certainly know the difference in my life if I can attain that almost constant connection throughout the day. Since then, I have consistently prayed twice a day for the last five years, but some times are more intense than others. I would suggest this is very much as Doug says, that if you can stay tuned in spiritually all day, it makes a huge difference. I think Jesus told us in a message that we only needed a few minutes each hour to have a permanent connection.

Much love,
Geoff.

[JustLis]

the first prayers for God's Love may not actually bring the love, but will instead bring to bear forces which will help prepare you to receive the Love.

You know, Doug.... That makes a great deal of sense to me.... Heaven knows I'm still a work in progress, with the emphasis on still needing a lot of work.... I'm still struggling with hurt feelings over the existence of God and/or His failure to intervene in the free will of others, and have no question that is creating some interference in finding answers.... But as friends here have suggested, I've been continuing prayer as if He does indeed exist and love me, hoping to move past those other feelings.... But it may indeed be the case that He's there, having to help chip away at those feelings before any other progress can be made.... That seems entirely reasonable to me, and a thought picture that I can understand....

This is because, quite simply, many of us are not in a condition to receive the love when we first pray for it. Our natural love needs to be purified to some level before our soul can open up to this greater love.

Yes.... I try to do the right things and act in loving ways, but I still make my fair share of mistakes and still have much to learn, especially about my relationships with friends. Those lessons have come hard and painfully, and perhaps there's still more that I need to learn before any of this will be possible....

So, at this stage, our prayers might not result in earth-shaking experiences of Pentecostal transformation.

I'm smiling as I read this from you. Mark has many times asked me, "What are you looking for? A booming voice from the sky? A burning bush?" And of course I'm not. I truly don't ever expect anything earth-shattering. In the end, what I'm trying to find is something that will occur only within myself. Some feeling of KNOWING I'm not alone. Knowing that feeling of peace and love deep within me that isn't going to just desert me on a whim. Maybe that feeling is just so foreign to me that it's not possible for me to get there. But that's the kind of thing I'm really trying to find -- that KNOWING that there's really a God out there who loves me and isn't going to just walk away.... I sense from what so many others have written that this is what comes with those physical manifestations -- the filling up with the feeling of love and at-oneness....

Hopelessness is surely one of the greatest enemies at this stage.

Yes.... And this is why, in the end, I've never been able to sustain the prayer more than a couple of months at a time. It becomes so frustrating -- and only intensifies those feelings that either there isn't a God at all, or that He just doesn't care. I'll try to keep in mind the idea that angels are chipping away from the other side of the mountain. Heaven knows I've built up enough rock over the years that it will probably take a very long time to see much progress. :(

What often works best for me, more than formal "prayers," is simply going through my day "prayerfully," kind of like that guy in Fiddler on the Roof, just talking with God as I go about my business. At first, maybe you're just "acting as if" He hears you, and then at some point you come to realize that He really does. And then at some point you begin to think that you might actually be hearing Him...

That realization would be the most wonderful thing, Doug. I would never expect to reach a point that I'd be hearing anything from God or angels, but I think you can fully understand how important it is to have the feeling and knowledge that you're in tune with God. Given my career, it's a little tough to find the quiet time to go prayerfully through the day -- but I can make time to help that happen....

I read the prayer three times a day for three weeks before I had any effects at all. I have a feeling one needs a very concentrated effort initially, and I would perhaps suggest once a day is not enough.

That may very well make a difference, Geoff. Between the demands of my work and life at home with my boys, I very honestly don't HAVE any quiet time to even think for myself until after midnight -- and it is that time that I've used for my quieter, prayerful moments. But perhaps you and Doug are right, that a more prayerful way of living, finding smaller moments of connection throughout the day would be more effective. It is certainly something I can work to make happen.

Thanks to you both for sharing your experiences and advice. I appreciate your help very much! :-)

Lis

[doug]

Yep, there are in fact several Padgett messages which suggest this strategy -- as they say, one moment of soulful prayer is more powerful than hours of "attempted prayer." So the trick is to adopt prayerfulness more as a "state of mind," rather than a particular "practice."

Once you're in this state of mind, it's amazing how many little moments in the day lend themselves to a quick prayer. And sometimes such prayers are very powerful -- this because we might be faced with a "real time" motivation for prayer in that moment, and this motivation is often what makes for "real" prayer.

No one need notice your new "prayer lifestyle." A prayer can have the duration of one single breath, and occur while you're walking from one room to another.

Or you can get in some real quality prayer time waiting in line at the bank, or while at a stoplight. And if you're lucky enough to be a commuter, well, that's "prayer heaven."

Going back to the topic of this thread, I have two thoughts. One, I see that this whole topic frequently causes people to make comparisons between the "successfulness" of their prayers and those of others. I guess in a general way I would want to avoid trying to do this, since I think it is an impossibility, given the fact that we are each such unique creatures, with such widely differing histories and circumstances.

A person may have a very highly developed love nature, with the exception of one little weak area, and that one weak area may be of such a nature that it completely blocks the reception of God's love. Such a person might find great difficulty in receiving the love, but no one should conclude that that person is therefore particularly "bad" or "sinful."

And here I would tend to agree with Amy, Geoff, and Inky, that a deficiency of self love seems to be a major block in receiving God's love.

My second thought is that we all seem to be noting that prayer for God's love is most difficult in the beginning, and that after things start "rolling," they can get much easier -- perhaps to the point where it seems almost effortless to aspire for the love.

Speaking for myself, I have only rarely been in the state where I seemed to receive God's love with virtually no effort on my part (and that for only brief periods of time), but I can certainly imagine that it could be possible to attain such a condition of oneness with God where this state is constant.

So perhaps we are encountering a paradox, where we observe that the divine love can be both very difficult and very easy to receive, depending upon where a particular soul is in their journey.

But for me the whole thing gets very murky and confused when I hear a natural path teacher proclaim "There is no need for effort -- just acknowledge that you and God are one." Now the quandary is that for one person that might be absolutely true -- and for another person (a beginner on the divine path) it might be absolutely untrue -- and a most harmful untruth at that.

And to further complicate matters, it often seems impossible to determine whether the person who delivers this teaching is an extremely advanced teacher of the divine path -- or simply a misinformed teacher of the natural path.

I hope I've expressed this adequately, as it's been a long-standing concern in my efforts as a teacher of the divine path. In particular, many Hindu teachings speak of the attainment of a "oneness with God"-- but they don't teach the necessity of any "effort" in doing so. I'm never quite sure how to react to such teachings. My assumption over the years has been that, for most of us, prayer for God's love takes some sincere, sustained effort, but perhaps I've been mistaken in this assumption...

[InkyWhip]

Doug,

I suppose that this is one of the distinctions which actually, in my
estimation, brings the teachings of the Padgett messages one
level higher than those of the paths that teach that 'we are
already One with God.' Mainly due to the fact that the messages
make it clear that God does not interfere with man's free will to
NOT be One with God, if that is what a person chooses. The other
paths seem to deny such a possibility, but in so doing, in my
opinion, they end up having to accept that since everyone is 'an
incarnation of God' then Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Pick your fav. mass
murderer here, are also 'expressions of God' and we end up again
with a God who is just too schizophrenic to be believed in.

My thoughts on Hinduism, though, are different. I thought that
Oneness with God was achieved through essentially the
same process as awakening kundalini, essentially meditating and
aligning and balancing one's chakras (hey, can I get that done at
Jiffy lube?) and therefore is the result of a long time of practice
and dedication...and failing to do so in an appropriate manner is
said to have disastrous consequences.

Though it may seem a 'small distinction' in language, to be praying
to become At-One with our Divine Mother, versus saying that
one already is One is tremendous, to me. It's like the difference
between being a 'breatharian' and a Wendy's triple burger-eating
aficionado. One thinks we don't have to eat at all, the other loves
eating as much as possible. One will (and they have, those who
still believe in that non-eating philosophy) starve to death, the
other will most likely die of a heart attack...after lots of satisfying
meals.

Amy...YUP! Prayers is just the next level of huggies! I love it!

Inky

[Kay Ann Ray]

Dear Folks,

I sometimes feel intimidated due to my limited "formal" education, but then I try to remember that I believe spiritual progression in God's Love gives a person an advantage, It brings wisdom, patience, understanding and other God-like qualities into the mix.

It makes me feel happy and free to realize that we only have to answer to the laws of God; that we are not responsible for so-called "saving" everyone! The beloved angel guardians keep trying to tell us that the best way we have of teaching about the availability of God's Grace is to EXEMPLIFY IT in our own lives.

Maybe I keep forgetting that simple advice. And keep butting my head up against a brick wall trying to figure out how to get people to get-it! And, of course, keep failing to find a way.

Geoff, I do think that false beliefs can retard our progress. Oops, I guess your post was on another thread (sorry about that) but it seems to me that when people sincerely believe that "they are saved" by believing that Jesus was the sacrifice for their sins, and that nothing else is required of them, it will take longer for them to progress in Love or purity of soul.

God blesses us, each and every one, more than we know and according to our acceptance of Her blessings, and our self-love, feeling that we deserve these wondrous gifts. Let's keep letting our Love-Light shine upon the world and help it come into a more harmonious condition!

I love all my brothers and sisters! Kathryn

[Geoff]

Dear Kathryn,

It's not easy to know which post that was, but suffice it to say I agree, we need to get rid of false beliefs. But, I keep on saying, Mother Teresa made the fifth, in fact the top of the fifth, so with all her "false" beliefs she went a long way down the right road.

Much love,
Geoff.

[letloveb]

dear all,
After reading the thread on how do we receive Gods love? I decided to share my personal experiences on how I came to find and believe in the existence of divine love…

I started my serious search for the meaning of life and the existence of God in 1998. After receiving my first message from the spirit world through a medium, my search became more intense. In one of my message I was advised to directly pray to GOD using psalms of David (119 Aleph-Tau). During that time, Finding GOD was my full time job as I had lost interest to work and material life. During my quest, I was attending churches of all denominations but nothing seems to appease me. I read most new age teachings and channelled messages with exception to the Padgeet messages. Again the more I read the more I wanted to know, nothing could satisfy my soul.

By 2002, I started attending a newly formed Pentecostal gathering, though I was enjoying the bible lessons and the singing, but something that I could not define at the time was bothering me about the place and the teachings. By mid 2002, one blissful night, I was tired, worn out and felt that I could not go on with these feelings of wanting for something that I had no conception of. That night I had a hot bath, decided not to conduct my usual night pray, instead asked, almost demanded and pleaded to GOD to show me the way and the truth, as I felt lost and overdosed with all the conflicting spiritual teachings. I lay down in my bed talking to God telling him how I feel lost, and how much I needed his assurance and love,,,, I was pleading, reduced to tears, wanting to ease the pain of the unknown, dreaming to take on the world unseen,,,,, Yes, I was having the one way conversation with GOD, telling him my side, how it has been for me, how I wished to find him to end the separation and to get rid of the feeling of loneliness.

In response, that very same night I was taken to a high rise building. I found myself in a house that was well decorated, I could see red carpet throughout the entire house, I also noticed that the house had a balcony. The balcony was wide open, and if I stretched my arms I could literally touch the sky. As I was admiring the view, I noticed my friend was sitting in the middle of the room on a very high chair, he was not saying anything but seemed to be observing. Next I saw my mother and she was standing on the balcony looking unusually scarify. My mother was angry and displeased about me, I did not seem to know why. She run towards me and grabbed me by the throat and took me to the edge of the balcony, she threatened to kill me. I was taken by surprise and I demanded to know what I had done to deserve such treatments, I then knew that I had to fight her off or else, I asked my friend to help me but he just sat there observing. With all my mighty power, I pulled myself away from my mother and grabbed the telephone. I dialled the emergency line and a man answered the phone. I explained what had happened to me and how my mother and myself had fallen out and that I needed help to get me out of the house. While talking to him on the phone I could also see the man, he was very sad to hear of our conflict and started to sob loudly. I remembered feeling why would a stranger was crying about my misfortune. He then said he will bring a car and will take me away from the troubled spot. The man came with a white van and drove and drove for hours and hours on end, then we arrived to my place of birth (Ethiopia), he took me to the Christ’s church that I used to attend with my family when I was a child. He left me there, I found myself standing in front of this giant church. I had no idea why I was there, or where to go from thereon. Suddenly I opened my right hand, and I found a peace of folded paper, in the paper the following message was written:




“Who ever is following me must now enter the house called Bethe”

I looked on my right, I saw a house, with a wooden door, the house looked centuries old and the door was closed so tight it looked as though it had never been opened. I was thinking how was I going to get inside, as I was not holding the key to the house. As I was contemplating how to get in, the door opened from inside. I saw a tall woman standing and holding the edge of the door, I was then pulled inside by some unseen force/or rash of wind. I noticed there were chairs sitting in rows of three and all women dressed identical to the first lady who opened the door for me. In front of me there was a stage, and the first lady who opened the door took me by hand and led me to the stage. I noticed there was a blackboard in the middle and I felt that the lady must have been teaching something. I was then put on the stage in front of the rest of the women. The first lady then ordered me to stretch my arms and my legs. This was not done in a normal conversation, it was like I knew what she wanted me to do and I obeyed her orders. The way my legs and arms were stretched made it very painful for me and I started to weep in agony. At this point, starting from my feet I began to feel a strong sensation like a rush of wind/energy coming into my body. The sensation went upwards, throughout my entire body touching every cell and on reaching my head it stopped. I was screaming in ecstasy, I was not scared at all. The lady then turned to the audience, the audience started to applaud.

I was then ordered to turn around, this time my body facing the wall. My arms and legs stretched as before. I felt that my arms were going to fall off. The same rush of wind and sensations came over me starting from my feet and going through my entire body and then went out after reaching my head, the lady did the same as before, she turned round to face the audience then the audience applauded one more time.

I was then ordered to sit on the floor, I noticed the first lady was holding a very long metal chain in her hands. She placed the chain on my right leg and in a blink of an eye the lady disappeared. In her place there was this ugly young girl, very dark in appearance standing in front of me. She got hold of the chain and started to chain my arms and legs. She then said to me in a very frightening voice that she was going to take me to a place where I could no longer count on God. Hearing that I started to panic, I resisted her chaining me by kicking and pushing her away. I then started to call on Jesus to help me, at first I was calling on most of the saints that I was familiar with, however, I started to notice that on calling Jesus’ name three times something extraordinary happened. The flooring before me was split into two, the girl who was holding me by the chain turned into an ugly looking animal and descended to the hall that was opened before me. I could see and sense the fear in her. I kept on calling Jesus’ name. I also noticed an older looking man was now seating by my right, he had a pleasant smile on his face (I later discovered that this man was my sprit guide). The third time round the same rush of wind came over me and swept my entire body until it reached my head and stopped, the first lady then turned up and asked the audience to applaud.

During this time I could also sense and see a human figure standing by the window of my bedroom. I also noticed the figure entered through the window but did not notice how and when the figure left my room…I then heard like a bell or cranky noise, and I felt that something had landed on my head. I was awoken from the dream like state that I was in. On regaining my conciseness, I did not know what to make of what happened to me. I knew I was not dreaming it, as I was hearing my daughter’s and my mother’s voice as they were playing at the time I was experiencing the scene. To make sure I was not going mad, I had verified it with my mother.

The following morning when I was making my bed I saw something extra ordinary, on the bed I found a metal decorated long hair pin that must have been used to wake me up by landing on my head the night before. The strangest fact was that, the hair pin in question was give as a present to my brother’s wife when I went to Ethiopia in 2001. Further more the same morning I received a book through the post, guess what, the title for the book was (GIFT OF THE HOLYSPRIT), I did not order this book, but the Pentecostal church had got hold of my address and sent me the booklet,, this is the work of my genius good sprit friends.

Although, I have been speaking to many people about what happened to me that night no one could give me an explanation that satisfied my soul, for many month after that revelation, I kept on searching needing to find more information on God and about the sprit life in general. By early 2003 I went back to Ethiopia, I received my second message from Jesus himself, in that message there were hints that I have received small portion of the divine love, however at that time I did not grasp the significance of the message. I kept on praying for more truth and clarity, one day again in sincere plea asked God to reveal me the meaning, to which I was lead to find Geoff’s web site subsequently introduced to the Padgeet messages. I now feel that I am guided in my spiritual, work and social pursuits, and hoped to be relived of my long term illness as promised by Jesus.

Yours in christ
Bieza

[Bill]

Hi All,

As I read the posts on how to obtain this awesome love, I cannot help but wonder about the “missing ingredient”. I see that we have covered the ‘effort’ it takes to obtain this love and the sincere longings too. But what I would like to add to this is what I believe is the most vital component, humility.

Maybe its just my experiences which allowed me to reflect on this matter even before I found Padgett, but this can only come with life experience. In my life as a corporate consultant I was fortunate to have worked in many different locations with many different people over the years. In each location I would always clash with the same personality type. Sometimes this was a male other times a female, but it was ALWAYS the same. This drove me crazy. They were always wrong and I was always right! Or so I thought in my youthful arrogance.

And so began my ‘what if its me’ thoughts which I now found were vital in this spiritual walk to accept this love.

I believe that humility can only come with life experience, which teaches us to have introspection.

Websters Defination:
Main Entry: hum•ble
1 : not proud or haughty : not arrogant or assertive
2 : reflecting, expressing, or offered in a spirit of deference or submission


Love to All

Bill

[alyn]

"I sometimes feel intimidated due to my limited "formal" education,....." (Kathryn)

No reason to ever feel intimidated, dear sister Kay Ann. :) "Formal" education does not deserve the "lofty" reputation it has. It is useful in some ways, yes, such as helping one to earn a comfortable living in the "world" of humans' construction. But...a "formal" education can't teach a wo/man the most important lesson of our lives here. That is, how to help the development of one's soul and, in the process, become at-one with our Loving Creator. ;) Even the most "educated" among us often are still seeking for our Mother/Father, imho.

Thanks for sharing your interesting story, sister Bieza. I'm so happy that you've found what "eases" all souls' longings, Divine Love.

And, brother Bill--I agree it is important to be humble because our Mother/Father is Humble. The truth that we all have our own free-will is an example of His/Her great humility. Imagine...the Creator of all Love, life and the universe(s) wants to be sure that you, His creation, truly accept Him, love Him, and want to be at-one with Him. Amazing Grace, for sure. :) Brother Dave has a great insight on our Mother/Father's humility and brought this to our attention a couple of years ago. (has it been THAT long already! ;) "time" flies when you're having fun, yes?)

Hugs for all,
alyn

[InkyWhip]

Bill,

I remember our dear brother Dave speaking about God's humility,
but I have often found that, somewhere inside, those of us with
poor self images often confuse with the smallness, the inferiority,
we feel with humility. Too often it is used in religious context to
mean that one must accept the fact that one is, as humanity in
general is, irreparably sinful and that one must accept the offer
of 'salvation' provided by God through Jesus...who is then, of
course, represented by the minister, etc. So, the minister or priest
is a representative of God and you are the screw up who must
submit to their every command without questioning. A corollary of
this position is also that nothing you think or realize that is
in conflict with their commands or teachings could possibly be
correct or of any value...

Strangely, however, the whole issue of 'submission' can also be
seen from a viewpoint which is (to me) often posited as the
opposite, one of ambition, to the point of being accused of hubris.

Let's face it, to desire to follow in the footsteps of one known as
the most loving person to ever walk the earth can be seen, in its
own way, to be the absolute height of ambition. To believe that
one is, even through the great gift of grace, capable of becoming
One with God as Jesus was is, to some, hubris.

Every night I say a prayer
in the hopes that there's a heaven
But every day I'm more confused
as the saints turn into sinners

All the heroes and legends I knew as a child
have fallen into idols of clay
And I feel this empty place inside
So afraid that I've lost my faith

SHOW ME THE WAY! -Styx

The funny thing is that it really is humble and submissive to realize
that God has a clue, and that we may actually want to tune in to
the plan, rather than try to be 'God's boss' and tell God "You got
it wrong, you should have made the world this way..." which is
what I see far too much of humanity doing...the ultimate in
character defect...blame God for humanity's errors, rather than
humanity itself.

Just a few extra thoughts on the misuse of 'humility' in modern
religion.

Inky

[Bill]

Inky,

That is another way of looking at it. In my personal case it was simply suggesting to myself that I may not have all the answers. I was a rather cocky corporate so and so. But for me it was that man in the mirror moment that lead me to consider that God's plan for my life might just be better then my own. And I was right about that.

Thanks for you input because I never thought of it that way. :)

Bill

[Kay Ann Ray]

Dear divine family,

I'm feeling uplifted and in harmony with life, so hopefully, that may mean that what I write will be from my heart and helpful.

Geoff, I have no difficulty understanding how and why Mother Theresa went into the 5th sphere when she passed over; she was totally selfless, serving many who were in need, loving God with her whole heart. How more humble can one get?

In the messages there's a place where Socrates observed that the spirits in the seventh sphere could come into the sixth, where he was living at the time, but he could not enter the seventh; and he ventured to ask John of Love why this was so?

Dear John explained about God's Gift of Love and how It had the power to transform the soul from an image of God into the very Substance of his divinity. But Socrates, being accustomed to using his reasoning mind, figured that there couldn't be much truth to that because it required no great comprehensive mental effort on his part. It seems that some time later, when Socrates met John again and the same explanation was given, Socrates decided to give-it-a-try. And the rest is history!

But, as I understand it, The sixth spherians are puffed up with their own importance and are loathe to give up what they have and feel is so wonderful, and they believe is the greatest happiness they can achieve. Also, not being humble, they are not willing to return to the third sphere in order to start their transformation of soul.

I am grateful that I have chosen the divine pathway of spiritual development while I am still in my earth life. I understand that it is more difficult to learn after becoming a spirit. Spirits go into a sphere which is exactly suited to the condition of their soul. They are comfortable there; all their friends and acquaintances are on the same level as they are. Apparently they have alot in common, and can go places and do things together and never run out of fun and exciting things to do and see.

I have no idea where this came from or is going, but I felt moved by my love to share these thoughts. It helps me see how different the 2 paths of spiritual development are; one is where the material mind is in ascendancy and the other where the soul, taking on the Essence of God's Love, is in control.

God continues to bless all Her children and governs us unerringly with perfect laws. We have greater awareness of these blessings when we accept ourselves as worthy and that we are the beloved children of God's creation.

I pray that you all have a happy, love-filled day. Your friend and sister in the Christ Love, Kathryn

[doug]

Hi All,

Well, I formally cede any desire or intention of keeping these discussions on topic :)

It's wonderful that everyone is participating and sharing so freely, and I certainly wouldn't want to do anything to put a damper on that. We are looking into upgrading the web board software to make it easier to keep track of diverging trains of thought, but for now I guess people can just use the "quote" button if they want to respond to a particular post.

Bill, yes I do sometimes wonder if part of the "effort" required on our part is simply the effort to humble ourselves. I guess humility is intimately linked with our acknowledgment that we need to seek something from God that we do not already possess. So, we could see humility as a prerequisite for this seeking, or we could see it as an integral part of this seeking. No matter, I suppose -- either way, humility seems to be the "key" that opens the Kingdom.

True humility, that is -- not to be confused with the false humility that Inky has described ;)


What an amazing story, Bieza! It is so incredible to realize that we each have a band of spirit guides who are trying to help us in a way that is perfectly appropriate for who we are, and where we are. What a wonderfully comforting thought!

Much love,
Doug