So how does one go to Heaven?

[Lord Revan]

The road to hell is littered with Good deeds.

Quite a sharp edged statement but true none the less. If the Christian Saint ends up in hell after death even if he Did live a life of Goodness and giving and above all (In the christian faith) God fearing, then surely a murderer could land up in heaven. The deeds dont seem to me to be the issue it is more a condition of Mind than anything else. Good people by lack of spiritual knowledge will NOT pass into the holiest of holies, but a neutral introspective seeker will see it even if he is void of love. Well that at least is the main picture in all the books i have been reading on the spiritual heavens and hells and ending up somewhere between them.

But it cant be that simple. Read a few thousand pages of text and voila one way access card to heaven. What damns a mand and what saves him?

These spirits claim that there is no Law of compensation, but merely the law of cause. You stick your hand into the flames you get burned, but if you are smart you can wear a Thick leather glove and avoid the agony. Some folks are in hell right now, damned by their own guilt. Some people stay longer in hell for less evil because they simply Choose to, blaming themselves and allowing the flames to tear away at them, others are in and out in a flash having been 10 times more evil than the previous.

If we truly are our own judge, jury and executioner then quite frankly i am not gonna damn myself to hell, i am gona avoid it by Choice. I feel squat for the things i have done to others, they provoked me and got their due reward. I am not gonna drag myself thrue hell for them and what i did to them, not a chance. So i guess i am off the hook then, at least the spirits behind my info make it sound that way.

I will take a good example to illustrate:

CURSING or SWEARING

allthough socially unacceptable and commonly refered to as rude, unmannered or vile it is no sin to curse. The intent is what is sin not the words. My uncle curses like the devil and uses gods naim in vain, but he does not mean the full intent of the words he is simply so used to swearing that it has become second nature to him and we all (the family) know this and really it doesn't bother any but the most Saintly of us.

So do we have the right to distance ourselves from people because they do things that we in ignorance may perceive as Sin, but wich really is nothing but a bad habit? I dont thinks so, i dont even care because most curse words if used in the Correct english word will simply sound silly instead of evil or bad. Take the F word its a hars word for the english word SEX, and the B word is a harsh way to say Female, but is it truly EVIL.

If i call any woman a female they wont think odd of me or bad, but if i call one a B then, damn i am gonna get a slap.

Please DOOOOOOOO understand i am not looking for justification of Cursing people, i rarely do so, only when severly antagonized do i directly curse at people. I am however looking to probe peoples minds into why we are so ofended when people curse or do things that we Deem oh so bad and above our saintly nature.

I look forward to your views.

Love

Donovan

[Geoff]

There is no greater fool in all the universes than he who takes the master's name in vain

From Bzutu, also known as ABC22. He is only 37,000 years old.

[Lord Revan]

By lord i did not mean Jesus, i ment God and seeing that God is NAMELESS how can his name be taken in vain?

And Jesus is a big boy, surely he can handle the way people throw his name around, because it seems to be in Mostly 2 extremes, they either make his name GOD or a terrible sounding curse-word.

Who is Bzutu BTW? I have never heard of him. Him being 37000 years old could not even raise my brow let alone impress upon me the acuracy of his words. If there are people on this planet that live to be 80 and have the insight , wisdom and understanding of a drunken Sot then there must be spirits that are in the same situation even if they are ten times a hundred, but that is a whole different story all-together. Bzutu is probably a celestial right? So he is exempt from the FOOL label, at least in my book.

And i do hafta agree with him, it takes a special kinda stupid to curse in Jesus or Gods PERCEIVED name and not realize it or do the very least to try and escew from such.

But i was more interrested in the plain old every day, hollywod movie curse words and their perceived Badness.

i'll end my comment with my favourite phrase for the day :-)

You can live to be a billion years old and still you would not have seen it all, existence is a never ending journey DO enjoy the Ride.

I like it that way, its like PC games only better, there is no ending to the fun.

love and greetings

[Mark]

Dear Donovan,

A short word on the Law of Compensation:

Sin is violation of God's Law. And so the Bible, surprisingly accurately, recorded it: "Whoever commits sin transgresses the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law" (1 John 3:4).

There is no such thing as the "Law of cause". For one, if you think about it, because it is quite impossible to have a "cause" without an "effect" (because the very definition of a cause is 'that which brings something into effect'). So, you could call the Law of Compensation the "Law of effect". But, conversely, there is no such thing as an "effect" without a "cause". So, really, the Law of Compensation is a "Law of cause and effect" together.

The "effects" of the Law (= compensation) are called into operation by the "cause" itself: sin. Therefore Paul keenly remarked: "The strength of sin is the Law" (1 Corinthians 15:56). In that sense only, man, as he becomes a spirit, is his own judge and executioner, submitting to and receiving the inexorable results of the Law, so that "As you sow, so shall you reap" (Galatians 6:7).

Being our own judge and executioner does not mean, of course, we get a "choice" in the measure of judgement received. "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged" (1 Corinthians 11:31), as Paul said with you. Rather, our own "choices" determine the compensation received (either good or bad).

Your brother in Christ,

- Mark

[Lord Revan]

Yeah i ment cause and effect not only cause, but hey i'm a lazy typer.

You dont need to explain Cause and effect to me, i am a umm "scientist" i know all about how things get done.

What i am pondering is this HOW does the Law get me to feel sorrow for actions i did a lifetime ago???

Now you made me do this :-)

Now i am gonna recall something i read in the padgett messages. If i get this wrong somebody correct me (my memory can only recall so well before it fails)

The law of compensation Does not affect people for their actions many years ago in the various stages of life, but on their CURRENT soul condition. Thus we need not fear that after turning to doing good and changing into Light seeking people set on doing all withing the scope of tha law that we are gonna fry for things we did or didnt do when we were younger or alive. It goes something like that i must just go and search it up and i'll quote it.

At the end of the day God would hafta paym if you think back far enough.

He afterall was the bloke that set all effects in motion and thus all causes, he created everything how can we create outside of the scope of Gods ablities? How can we sin if Sin cannot be commited, created or even thought up by God? But lets not fry our brains with whom is to blame and whom is not. The effect does not hafta be 1000 years in hell for all your actions acumulated. We know spirits dont count time so why a SPECIFIC time or duratitive sentance?

Its confusing but very nice to try and resolve. I thing the majority of people are simply help by the belief that one day in the far off future once we are all dead that some Savior is gonna come and they will have the pleasure of watching all whom have done wrong to them, suffer so they can GET Back at them, its not hard to see that the Law of compensation could have been thought up by people or spirits help by this Hope and faith in a Champion that will beat up all their oppressors.

And as for the bible quotes mmmmmmm i like the fact that you do go to some effort to state a case THATS GOOD, but paul is by far not perfect in his understanding and interpretation of things dont you think. To consult the bible for MORE PROOF is like consulting scientists when you want to proove God exists. In the scope of science God has no existence (wrongly i admit, but unfortunately so)

Thanks mark. I'll get back here and Quote Post that section in the padgett messages that states HOW the Law of Compensation Works and what are the grounds for its activation. Till then Broand others.

Love

Donovan

[George]

So Lord Revan.... Lord of your Soul.....,

What Damms a man and what saves him?
I know that when a person gets this part of the puzzle correct then you dont have to wonder around or stress the brain.

With Love,

Soul

[Lord Revan]

meaning?.....

[Kay Ann Ray]

Dear Don,

English isn't our dear brother's (George's) first language and all his explanations aren't "crystal clear", but we love him, he has a great spirit and believes in the angels messages whole heartedly. So, in my humble opinion, he is stating (again) that prayers for God's Love and seeking truth with ones heart, saves the soul, while seeking with the intellectual minds reasoning powers tends to lead one astray from the truth. At least makes it a whole lot more difficult to find.

But God created our souls with "free will"! We are responsible for what befalls us; it isn't "the luck of the draw", It isn't God's doing, unless you'd consider that giving us a free will was a mistake. But when we have asked for forgiveness for our sins (anything done out-of-harmony with love) and have become loving souls, we have no more compensation to pay.

I'm not sure if I have addressed your question accurtely, but I gave it a good try, and I did it with love, so all is well! We will continue to learn and grow, if that is our desire. We open to door to many blessings when we turn to God for help and Love.

Have a great and satisfying day. With love, your sister, Kathryn

[George]

Donovan,

You wrote that sentence But it cant be that simple. Read a few thousand pages of text and voila one way access card to heaven. What damns a mand and what saves him?

So I am just asking... do you know?

[Lord Revan]

English is neither my 1st language.

Well Kathryn you do make a lot of sense and i can see you are comitted to what you are doing. But i am more comitted to find out by FACT than by word of mouth.

All these spirits from the most holy heavens look at me and my kind or simply pu US, the intellectuals as NOTHING, as mindless donkeys that are running after the slightest sign of a ripe sweet fruit. THey make us into the Bad and useless even when we attain our PERFECTIOn in the 6th, but the DL are made EQUAL TO GOD and their leader Jesus.

Let jesus come and tell me how we can improve the eficiency of the Internal combustion engine to 100%. if he can then his words would be PROVEN that with DL comes knowledge without any attention to learn it, test it, proove it or even contemplate it.

Let him tell me how i can ceate a 1 000 000 GHz CPU without burning the thing up in a milli second.

I am tire of being the SH!T in every HEAVEN, HELL, on every Planet and in everyone or more appropriately the PERFECT people's eyes. I am allways told to sway to others, give, never take, love all with a humbling SELF DEGRADING LOVE. I am so sick of spirits barking at me that i MUST this and MUST that. If everybody just would get of their lazy Behinds and WORK FOR THEMSELVES then NOBODY would have TOO little or any shortcoming WHATSOEVER. But these lazy, good for nothing preacher type fanatic that look at all people that make progress in this world are to pathetic to even try, to even see the other side of the coin. They want to sit in their heavens and judge ME, ME i who have done more than Most will ever care to improve myself, to be fair, to help and do good, i am told how my efforts will bring me NOTHING, but my few sins, comitted in youthful ignorance will be met with a Strict , lengthy sentence in hell, like the drunkard and the sensualist. They dont see that i have forsaken these things, for sex i care Nothing, for alcohol i have never, as i live, NEVER been drunk. But i am the big bad ass whereever i go and whatever i say is, illogical, stupid, hating, blasphemy and everybody's pain in the back.

How many times have people remarked about my Attitude, what of it? Must i say to you Geoff, Master, will you then see me as Worth?

IN THIS POST I AM ANGRY, so go on TAKE OFFENSE because i MEAN TO INFLICT IT.

As i type this my father is swearing at my mom, drunk as usual and causing havock with our lives, we the innocent must bear the weight of the Drunk's actions.

And you tell me, dear sister Kathryn that we are responsible for what happens to us. I Dont want to control peoples free will but i must in order to avoid baring the weight of their actions. Just an hour ago i hid my Dads car keys, he threatened to go and roll the thing because he is sick of us.

The raped woman is the victim of the rapist and she Bares more agony that he ever will. So yes evil DOES pay in this and the next world. And Like the Master of Physics himself and even Jesus in some of the book i have read said, ALL ACTIONS and Forces have an equal and opposite REACTION or FORCE. and if Good be a froce then Bad or Evil will exist as long as Good exists, for it is the opposite force.

I am tired of typing 500 word posts TRYING to tell people in my own IMPERFECT way what my fears are and my concerns and what i so hope and desire for, only to be met by a bible or Padgett message quote and a Plastic pointed finger, pointing at me for trying but failing to change Absolutely in Absolute time.

I am not gonna waste my time posting here anymore, trying to explain what i cannot put adequitely into words.

So here take your FORUM and with me gone it will be the Lovely little Love spot for like minded people and those that Share YOUR VIEWS. Dont bother with the new members and how they feel and see things, just sit here the 10 of you and go on typing how perfect your chosen paths are. Make people wanna flee here and quit without so much as greeting goodbye, judge them, shun them and send them on their way away from your perfect, God, Jesus, teachings and choises.

No wonder there are only about 15 active usesrs here, your Intolerance keeps all else out.

Dont, bother responding to this cause i aint coming back here!!! Rather go and have a hearty talk and joyfull celeration that the pest has gone, that foolish intellectual that is doomed to be destroyed by your deity.

[Lord Revan]

And just one last thing in my own defence. Before you all cheer yourselves on your CORRECT way of dealing with me and what i presented here, just bloody remember this.

I read your sacred books, i prayed your prayers, i spoke and listened to your words and truth and teachings, i listened to your angels to your God, to your Jesus. I walked on your path and learned your ways. But none of you EVER cared to walk mine or learn mine or even contemplate them or try to see what i saw in what i SEE.

[doug]

Donovan, I can certainly sense your pain and frustration, as I had in earlier posts as well, and once again it seems that the main source of this unhappiness is not some feature of the spirit world, or even the dynamics of this forum, but is what's going on in your life, right now, right in front of you. Honestly Donovan, it doesn't sound too good.

I think a number of us have tried to be sympathetic and helpful, and perhaps we haven't been as successful in this as we could have been. But again, it seems like these discussions sometimes are doomed to failure because we're not even really talking about the issues that need to be talked about.

I could, once again, suggest to you that you are jumping to some conclusions about the nature of the spirit world and the nature of God, but you've heard this already several times -- it really doesn't seem to be central to what's going on with you right now.

The fact is that you are presently a mortal, and what really concerns you urgently is finding out how to be happy here on earth. Of course these questions about cosmology and God may certainly have bearing on this question, but in other ways some of these concerns may simply be a distraction.

Who cares if there are computers in the spirit world? The fact is that you, right now on earth, use computers. I think computers are good -- I would venture to say I think God "likes" computers, just as He likes cars and chairs and tables and anything else that helps His children to be happy.

If you should ever come back to this board and read this message, I hope you will remember one thing:


God wants you to be happy

That's all. Forget anything else you've read here over the months. Just try to remember that and it will take you far.

Now, understanding that God wants you to be happy, you could look at your life and try to determine what is keeping you from happiness. And to determine where your happiness lies.

God is not keeping you from this quest -- God is in fact cheering you on.

As are we.

I wish you great success in your quest for happiness!

Blessings,
Doug

[Geoff]

Dear Donovan,

I had in fact decided not to post you any longer, simply because it never seems to end up in a positive direction. But...

How many times have people remarked about my Attitude, what of it? Must i say to you Geoff, Master, will you then see me as Worth?

Yes, I have been blunt. Just as I would be with my own son. I could have said much more, but we are not face to face, so it's not going to be construed by you as me trying to show you what effect you have on people. And trying to help that process.

Your quote above is interesting. If you really were at peace, you would not be bothered whether I think you have worth.

With that, I will finish, and along with Doug wish you peace.

much love,
Geoff.

[George]

Dear Donovan,
You have walked our way Donovan.
But we havent walked your way.
What is your way?
I have missed something somewhere I apologize for that.
Bring me up to speed.


At least you can see one thing here Donovan and that is compassion. Everyone loves you brother. Imagine me included :)


With Love,
George

PS: You havent answered my question as yet. And you dont have to I guess. You dont have to do anything.
No one is forcing your hand.
No need for anger or despair. They are just negative conditions that pull you down. Right?

[InkyWhip]

Donovan,

When you realize that the evil spirit that you continue to allow
audience is affecting both your life, and perhaps the lives of those
around you, and remove this influence from your life, please do
return and re-read the messages with an unhindered mind, and
a soul that really is open to possibility, and capable of making the
free-will choice to love God.

Some of your posts lead me to think that you haven't been willing
to let 'the message' of the messages influence your point of view.
Remember, those who frequent this forum do so precisely for the
reason that we have found our spiritual home in Divine Love. You
have received much empathy, encouragement, and forgiveness,
overlooking many errant and abusive posts for the soul we love
underneath. Yet, whenever you get close to accepting that love,
you turn around and violently reject it. Nonetheless, that will not
influence the fact that the offer still exists.

But, in any case, you have yet to realize one of the most
wonderful truths: No one, anywhere, will ever be able to 'see
things' exactly as you do. Since such 'seeing' is based on many
things, including most especially subjective life experience, it is
one of the aspects of individuality that only love offered and love
accepted can breach.

Eternity is a long time. As the Bond movie title goes: Never say
never.

Inky

[alyn]

I thought that I'd share an impression that came to me just now about the title of this thread: So...how does one go to heaven?

One doesn't go. Heaven comes to one. Is always there, from the moment your Creator 'breathed' the life of love into your soul and on to the moment that you arrived here on the mortal plane. It is knocking at your door. A host of angels, most of which have suffered as much or much, much more than you or I, perhaps, during their lifetimes here. They're all knocking, waiting, standing there patiently, with our Father/Mother. Knocking, ringing the bell.

All you need to do, is open the door and let 'em in. :)

Love and hugs, alyn

ps
...and they don't go away, either. ;)

[Amada Reza]

Dear Alyn,

I love this analogy - it speaks to God's unconditional love for us and the intention of His beautiful soul that we become at-one with Him. That they don't go away is our hope that when we are ready, a multitude of loving arms are ready to embrace us.

Thank you, dear sister, for sharing this special impression.

Much love to you,

Amy