What is "sane"? (was A New Revelation)

[Lord Revan]

Ain't NOBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gonna decide what i can hear and cant hear and what i am allowed to learn and NOT allowed to learn from ANYBODY on this forum.

I want to hear about Reincarnation, because i want to come back here 500 years from now and play the LATEST games on the LATEST Computers, so please Alan tell me, if the Person or Persons that told you to Escew from such talk, were threatening you (someway) then tell me in private, you have my e-mail address.

Somebody is scared they'll lose THEIR MEMBERS, yes i'll say it because i see it. People that have their posts deleted and get Told in private To NOT post certain topics or talk about them are being Moderated and silenced JUST LIKE JESUS WAS, they killed him, we all know why he was killed, so he could be silenced and the rulers continue holding Power and sway over the masses. I am not some Commodity that BELONGS to any of you, nobody will dictate to me what i may learn or not, where i may poke my nose or not and what questions i may ask and wich i may not. This is like a church, the priest tells the open minded seeker that asks questions, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION GOD!, YOU MAY NOT ASK SUCH AND SPEAK OF THIS, YOU MUST JUST BELIEVE AND SEE AS WE SEE AND THEN YOU CAN ENJOY THE FREEDOM WE GRANT YOU.

This is Just another SIGN to tell me that this crap happens in heaven, JUS TAS I HAVE SUSSPECTED FOR A LONG TIME NOW, seeing as death makes no change to the individual this behaviour will continue with these individuals in the hereafter and they will cast people in hell if they must before ONE LETTER OF THEIR LAW may be found to have some Fault in it. Its easier For alan to be insane than anybodies INTERPRETATION of what The padgett Messages say and what they mean when they say something, to be incorrect, short sighted or just plain erroneous.

This is outrageous!!!

I can understand if harsh posts and bashful sayings are Moderated and such individuals (like myself) kept under CLOSE Scrutiny, but to start calling people Insane WITH SERIOUS INTENT, that was not some sarcastic joke or sharp mouthed reply, that was a NON Pro's interpretation and assumption based on their INDIVIDUAL and NOT ALL KNOWING perceptions.

And as far as all these Psy-something people (the People that KNOW human behaviour) go i have ONE Observation to share. My mother worked at a place where these people were on CONSTANT call to evaluate individuals and decide if they are fit to go to trial or not. THESE PSY-people have the most Warped children you can imagine, their marriages are messed up, the majority are divirced, their families dont talk to them, they have NO FRIEND outside of their profession, they have No sex life, and they are personally motivated when evaluating NOT FACTUALLY motivated, they judge on appearances, statistics, and 1 in some figure possibilities.YOU CANT BOIL PEOPLE DOWN TO NUMBERS or LOCK SOMEBODY UP or keep them from representing themselves in a fair trial based on some Bloody notion or one in one hundred chance, There is a 1 in 10 chance that i will kill to protect myself and others, why not just lock me up because i CAN and POSSIBLY MAY do so, Lock us all up based on some Guesstimate or statistic. I was NOT impressed doug when you mentioned these PSY-people and their methods and used that as some sort of ARMOUT PLATING for your post, i am sorry, BUT i DO disagree with you, and i have even controlled myself to the extent that i say it with some compassion and understanding that you JUST may NOT know any better, you may look up to these people without seeing their mistakes and shortcomings yet.

And also, I will be the FIRST ONE TO OPENLY admit i am mentally disturbed and a danger to myself and those around me, but that depends on where i draw the Starting line and where i draw the Finish line.

If every 10m in a 100m dash is considdered the next step for guaging SOMETHINGS progress and The Track be the Placeholder for mental Insanity, then you can draw the staring line WAY BACK and the finish line Infront of me and give me a 95m out of 100m insane Figure and lock me up.

If however you take a more Popular member here and draw the Starting line behind them and the Finish line 95 meters ahead, you can call them NORMAL because the track shows this.

NOBODY can draw lines on ANYTHING because if you do and you start evaluating and Dealing with people BASED ON THESE LINES you will lock up Innocent people that just dont conform to YOUR idea of what is close to the finish line and what is still close to the starting line.

Likewise YOU CANT DO THAT WITH GOOD AND BAD, you cant call a man that curses bad because YOU have a line that guages him on Wording used as either Good or bad.

The above is NOT ONLY for you Doug BUT FOR ALL OF US!
we are ALL EQUALLY insane or equally sober, no ONE person can start drawing lines and dealing with people on his or her findings, we arent Lab rats for people to test bloody theories on, we are souls and fully capable of THINKING FOR OURSELVES, if alan thinks he is Reincarnate, then i join him because I Too think i am reincarnate, based on my current personality i can see how i probaly came back to play games and drive cars, so yes i am kookoo too, so is Victor because he wants to build Anti Gravity devices, George because he plays golf, Amy because she talks to mary, Alan because he is reincarnate, Geoff because he believes in The Magisterial Son, Kay because she is (in her own words) stubborn, we are all here because we are equally nuts, the law of attraction draws us together, i tried to leave a while ago, even said i WILL NOT RETURN, yet here i am, i cant leave.

So you see we are all insane to SOMEBODY and that INSANITY depends on SOMEBODIES NORMAL or their Idea of Normal wich in turn is based on WHERE THEY DRAW THE LINES.

With more love than any of you could imagine i say this to defend and accuse ALL OF US.

please dont delete THIS IS IMPORTANT for people to know and contemplate on, however NOT TO SIMPLY BELIEVE BECAUSE I OR ANYBODY ELSE SAID SO, find the truth for yourself, i am not a walking dictionary of truth here to correct everyone, you go and graft you own behind off for YOUR truth and keep it to yourself if you cant OPEN MINDEDLY accept ALL people are different and So also the "THINGS" they hold near and dear (truth is included in those "THINGS" along with, belief, faith, perception, interpretation, experience and reality), ALL OF YOU and ME INCLUDED!!!

goodbye friends brothers and sisters

Donovan, the forum Fungus

[alyn]

Dear family,

I don't know if this is the correct thread or not, but someone can move it or my other posts, to which this post is a continuation. (I have a bit of time to write again) :)

Perhaps, I should clarify a bit I wrote previously. I referred to the concept of reincarnation as an ages old accepted event in the context of spiriutal truths by many people. What I meant is the basic tenets of reincarnation are generally accepted by a wide range of people. Those basic tenets, or accepted truth, is that reincarnation is part of a soul's karmic evolution, and that when a soul reaches a certain stage of "purification" from error and deeds done in error, that soul resides in the spiritual realms from that stage onward.

It is not so much that the assertions about reincarnation posted by AJM contradict the Padgett messages, so much as they contradict even these ages-old accepted concepts of the karmic evolution of a soul. So, that what I was thinking of when I wrote "truth already accepted over centuries". This is just one assertion that I disagree with within the "new revelations" posted here by AJM.

Second, I see some parallells to experiences I've had involving more secular issues concerning pressures to conform to , or accept, something that I disagree with.

I am and have been active in the anti-war movement since before troops were sent to Afghanistan. Often, I am one of those persons that stand on the street handing out fliers. This is why I laughed at what Donovan said in an earlier post about fliers. I have found that fliers often spark people's curiosity, and so, they are free (no pressure, here) to inquire further and/or join activities relating to the intentions/causes of these types of fliers.

I also work within many different coalitions of many different organizations, depending on the event and the related anti-war activities. The freedom to exchange new ideas, discuss current concepts and social events, plus DISAGREE with each other without coercion on anyone's part, yet still work together, is crucial to the community formed amongst the people in these coalitions.

On the other hand, I receive a lot of "flack" at these events/demonstrations against war, for any reason. There is a subtle discourse of attack in these opposite opinions in some cases. Some allude to the fact that if we are not supportive of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq that we are un-American and, more seriously, perceived as potential "enemies of the state/U.S" in an atmosphere of fear that there are myriad terrorists hiding under every rock or nook and cranny, waiting to pounce on innocent global citizens. In other words, some orgainizations that are opposed to the current anti-war movement have publicly stated that this movement is "bad" simply because it is not a movement that supports the preferred, or mainstream, U.S. government policies. Or, more closely, the mainstream public concept of war, period. Specifically, the concept that purports that "war is peace", or even, "necessary". ?? Yeah....and night is day, too. ;)

I brought up my experiences in the anti-war movement to try to more clearly express I feel coercion coming from the assertions presented as "new revelations of truth". We have been told that we "don't have to believe", but if we don't believe, then we are somehow "enemies/censors of truth". In other words, "if we aren't with you, we're against you", with no "grey" area or dialogue allowed in between that is not "colored" by moral overtones.

Perhaps, I am merely too sensitive, due to the constant contentions I face during social activist work I am involved in beyond participation in the anti-war movement that relate to social injustice issues that I feel can be peacefully and progressively resolved in the spirit of creating a better world here. Nevertheless, I have had lots of experience with situations in which people are passionate about what they believe to be the truth about any sociopolitial events, and just as active in the practice/application of their perceptions. So, I tend to be sensitive to subtle coercion as well as outright coercion and/or censorship. I feel there's been no censorship of brother AJM, just a redirection of context for certain conversations.

There is a fine line between allowing people to disagree and still be free to discuss and form their own opinions according to appropriate context of any discussion and creating an atmosphere that censors this free, more organized, activity. No one on this forum has censored AJM or rejected him, as the unique soul that he (really) is. But, I read replies from AJM that imply that if we don't accept him as a reincarnation of one of the apostles, for example, then we need a lecture on how we resist Truth. ??

That's enough of me rambling on. I have gotten most of the contradictory feelings I have at the moment off my chest. I would prefer to focus on how brother AJM feels that he can become part of a free speaking, nonjudgemental community ( a community with different opinions and/or perceptions is NOT the same thing as a closed, judgemental community) without insisting that he enters such community as an a priori "expert authority", a position and identity that tends to censor other opinions of what he posts. ??

love and hugs, alyn

p.s. No one has to agree to anything I've posted today. Tell me to go jump in the lake if you want. I will love you anyway. :D Constructive criticism is welcome, I just can't "hear" ultimatums concerning my comprehension of a subject/object, which are not productive to community or learning, etc. among people, imho.

[Kay Ann Ray]

Thank you, dear sister in the Christ Love, Alyn, for expressing your feelings. This is what we have been encouraged to do here, so there can be an understanding of what our divine members feel about what is happening here.

I believe that AJM had been asked to not write about reincarnation on the threads which have been designated for sharing the P Messages because to many of us that subject doesn't agree with what we find in those messages. So it seems that a new section has been created for his use.

Since he assures us that all the truth we need to know in order to progress into the Celestial Heavens can be found in the Padgett Messages then he can use his new forum "More Comparing Note" for his further posts.

God bless you all. And please express your feelings clearly and abundantly, so we can know one another better and love one another more fully and graciously. Thank you for loving yourselves and knowing that you are Loved by God, have free wills and are entitled to your own opinions and feelings.

Your friend and sister in God's Love, Kathryn

[Lord Revan]

Dear Alyn

I hear WHat you are saying and head nodingly i agree, but Alan has not seemed that forceful to me, infact he seems the opposite. He tells me and others what truth is and does not FORCE any of us to agree and reform, i wish i could say the same for everyone here but i cant.

He never TOLD us what we should, must and are going to do, at least i did not pick it up as such, but OTHERS especially the Big 5 (or as kay said DIVINE MEMBERS) can tell me I SHOULD and MUST MORE OFTEN PRAY FOR DL.

I have 0% interest in DL, acquiring it or becomeing Divine and AT ONE with God, if Gods eternal Companionship depended on ME then he would sit all alone FOREVER, cause his REPRESENTITIVES, Jesus, the apostles, the angels, some of you and the average SPIRITUAL Joe are painting him in a picture thati care to have NOTHING to do with, i am sick of Jesus God.

Let Jesus Follow him, i am going to find my own God or at the very least Follow myself, because i AM a God (to myself) and a heck of a lot more fun to be around than Jesus God, as are Most people. So jesus should Learn from me to Live and Let live and stop spreading HIS truth around and almost EXPECT me to simply Believe.

So yes nobody should FORCE anybody with IF or Else statements, i am not some VARIABLE in programming that is controlled by some If or Else Statement.

And lastly STOP RECOMMENDING DL TO ME, all of you!!! The more you recommend it, or tell me i should and must,the LESS i listen, infact its safe to say that PEOPLES percistence to have me FOLLOW the path has SERIOUSLY impacted on my adhering to the path, i see it as nothing more than an alterior motive by people to enslave me.

So if you all want to mute Alan, then DO MUTE yourselves too, because none of you are God and THUS far from Truth, perfection and or knowledge.

But because i live and let live i will tell you all that any Continued Reccomendations for me to pray for DL will simply be ignored and i wont comment on it again, just know you are causing me to walk farther and farther away from the path by continuosly HOUNDING me to do as YOU believe to be the best.

So i will copy you Alyn and say that people can chase me off to the fire pit aswell, i could care less, though.

ALAN you can E-mail me if you want and talk to me in private, infact i would prefer it so, i dont need CONTINIOUS comments from people to hinder OUR dialog, we will stick together YOU AND ME the 2 crazies :-), but i can understand if you just want to be left alone for a while or even forever, cant blame you.

PRACTICE (you all) what you (all) preach!

Love and greetings

Donovan

[Phil Jones]

good morning, donovan.
i read your post and i feel moved to respond. but i really don't know exactly what to say.
so, guess what? I was warm on Christmas Day. I was well fed. and i had no one trying to kill me. i am truly blessed compared to others.. hey donovan, you got anything to be thankful for?

[George]

HI Don,

Dont worry, we will all get to hear more on the subject of reincarnation in time.

My personal feeling of it?

When I thought about it years ago, I thught that was the silliest thing out there. then the Padgett messages confirmed that no one has re incarnated as yet.
In all of History, no man has ever reincarnated as yet and therefore all the stories about this subject are just stories.


....... till just recent.

Remember that Truth does not mutate. We probably all have certain and different blockages that impede us in certain ways to accept truth.

I myself though I border like others when I think about this on the edges of insanity, the soul feels right!
So you see I may have some blockages but not about what has been written. My soul is open to those things.

It has been written as have many other things. Those that can see can read. Reach in your soul and Pray to The Father to remove any blockages that you may assimilate what you read from that Divine energy that if you have prayed for and received, exists in you.

You are more perceptive that yo think Donovan.

Keep Praying,

All my love,

George


PS: I highly recommend you print out if you havent done so this particular thread and sit in your favourite place and read. It deals about the different qualities of truth. :
http://divine-love.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=736

[AnalyzerX7]

Wow Donovan... there is a massive sense of rebellion against authorative figures in your speach.. I can reason with you though friend. Because people forcing things down your throat or telling you what you cant or can do will only make you want to flex your muscles in defiance to them.. But still you seem very focused and logical, Have you ever tried to sit down and discern how you feel and why you feel it? You dont want to pray you dont want the divine love... Why? If you feel pressured here leave.. become relaxed at mind and know that no one can force you to do anything, ever. You are a creature of free spirit and can only be guided in the right direction brother, not lead. Peace of mind is so important. Watching people everyday struggle and fight over things so trivial.. Like you i enjoy playing games on computers, and i used to own a super bike.. But as you grow (in mind) some things take priorities over others... Such is life my friend, these things you too will figure out on your own. Your a perfectly able and capable man.

Your brother.
D

[Lord Revan]

Dear Phil

As your response was first in line i shall respond to it First, secondly Georges adn Lastly AnalyzerX's.

Christmas, yes, where was i what do i have to be thankful for.

Christmas i was at home, with my brother and a friend, my dad was drunk at some BAR with people that have an less IQ combined than i have in my left hemosphere alone, some divirced S**T around his neck like a colar around a dogs neck. My Mom was with her 2 Faced family enjoying Christmas South African Style and gossiping and thinking themselves SO SO clever.

So at home i sat Building away at my Chevy V8 Engine PRAYING for strength from God to complete it so i can buy a Car with the money i get for it (if i ever will see a cent that is) so i can LEAVE.

What do i have to be thankful for, ALOT, but the things that REALLY mean something to me are allways arm lengh away and i can never seem to reach it.

I am thankful for A my mind B my wisdom C My knowledge and Experiences D My PC, the 15 Piece Game collection i have, connection to the internet and the plate of icecream i had as i sat Rotting away in my room as usual.

So yeah i have things to be thankful for, but they dont seem to do much other than JUST exist, Just like me i just exist i dont live.

I am also thankful fo one more thing, DEATH, to end all of this SOMEDAY, soon i hope.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear George.

Pray to remove the barriers you say? mmmmmm the only barrier is LACK of info on weather there are (yet a-bloody-gain) CARS and PC's in heaven, if there are then i am there, if not....well i am getting tires of typing it OVER and Over again.

So The change nolonger lies with me, its with God and his angels to show me what i want to see, the things that make me happy, then i do the rest of the work, but seeing as 2000 years have passed and not a word from Jesus on the matter, i can safely assume that heaven is an insane assylum for Gone God crazy people like Jesus, it holds no single thing of interest for an individual such as myself.

Truth doesnt Mutate you say, then what do you call Divine Love teachings??? A morphing of Christianity and Spiritualism and for what, more end of world theories, destroyed lives, mental lunatics that will blow up NON believers? Sure i can sit and ponder and let it sink in and pray for DL, be a good person, do the will of God, help the crooked in hell, believe i am a Messiah, write a 4000 Page book, proclaim it as truth and tell a nation to follow it or Else, but in MY book thats called BRAINWASHING, when you are forced to abandon sceptecism, logical thought, reasoning, intellectual achievements, a cent of money, an ounce of freedom, your personal customs, joys and tastes, your style of music, the clothes you wear, THAT IS BRAINWASHING and i can also become a mindless spiritual drone that lives of dry bread and walks around barefoot preaching THE WILL OF GOD but i choose a different path.

I have been told many times how i MISUNDERSTOOD the P Messages, how i DIDNT apply it enough, how i did not COMMIT enough to its teachings, but Did i, or did i simply excercise my free willed choice of option and choose the Natural and Intellectual path above the Divine and Superior One?

The choice is mine and it's made, even if i hafta DIE the SOULS death of Destruction i will NOT choose Divinity and At Onement with God, rather dead free than enslaved alive i say... no matter how crazy and Uninformed that sounds it still is my perception and my choice.

But i thank you for the recommendation, i just have slightly Different goals and ideals i want to put my energy and my trust in.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear AnalyzerX

I value your post and what you said in it, its good to know that there are people (others here also included) that understand FREE WILL and that i dont HAfta do Squat! I think for myself, i teach myself, i live practically alone and i love ever Bit of it. Its the external rubbish of other people like my parents that causes me irritation and makes me angry, and also the absurdities of some So Called Truths and that includes even the Science based ones like, there is no God yadda yadda.

The problem i believe is Lack of understanding, if people could feel what i feel in the things i feel my greatest joy in they would SURE AS THE SUN RISES never try to belittle it or destroy it or reccomend a Replacement (and the real culprits of this Violation of what i like are the Spirits). Most spirits just like most people are short sighted, personally motivated, ill informed, short on brains and seriously Unconcious when it comes to Logical thought.

I dont blame people for telling me, you must this and you must that, i blame the bloody spirits that think they can pop up through some medium, proclaim THEIR TRUTH and expect to turn this world into the Jolly Jolly land that THEY think it should be (heaven on earth as they say). This is OUR world NOT theirs and for them to use us as LAB Rats to test various reactions on is Disgusting. And people swallow it up by the metric ton, become the armies of these Radical spirits and want to force certain things on other people, things that for the most part ARENT even RELATED to truth. Look at most of the Terror attacks, who are the real terrorists, why are they terrorists, what defines a terrorist? Bushes opinion, What determines FREEDOM, Americas interpretaion of freedom??? i doubt, or how about Cristianities Theories??? i also doubt that one.

This will sound vain, but i cannot even comprehend how a man with CLEARLY half the intellect of myself and level of thought can be THE MOST POWERFUL MAN IN THE WORLD, no wonder we have such troubles as we do. But i dont want this response of mine to trigger a Political Who's who, i just used it as an eg. of what OPINION believed to be TRUTH can do when it is FORCED.

Today i just cant get this post to sound the way i want it to, i just cant seem to use CLEARLY illustrative eg. to show what i mean.

Lastly, i suppose you must have lost interrest in your Superbike, else you would not use that as an eg.???

Thing is just because you may have lost interest, found something Better and more Spiritual to take its place, does NOT mean i am ready to do so or should because YOU have done so.

See what i am trying to say??? Let me drive a SUPER CAR for 20 odd years and maybie then i will get bored and move on, but tell me (this is not to you it is to those pesky spirits that like to TELL and Command) i must or should or eventual will hafta then i get ticked off and defensive. I dont Go telling religious people that HEY YOU MUST ENJOY the pleasure i enjoy in fast cars because it is TRUTH and GOOD and will further your development so stop praying and praising and Start racing.

As far as leaving the forum goes i will say that you have a point, if i feel FORCED i can leave, but i am not going to abandon the many friends i have made that have respected me and NEVER ONCE told me that i must, should, or eventually will, they and this OFF TOPIC area are the reasons why i still hang around here, when thse are Gone i will go GLADLY.

PS: Divine Love may give you Happiness and joy beyond belief, it may make you glow as the sun and clad you in white, wisper in your ear GOD LOVES YOU........

BUUUUUTTTTTTTTTT :-) :-) it could NEVER recreate the thrill of a sports car in full drift. Think about it like that and you will see why i still value MY STUFF as neccisary to my eternal happiness. I dont just want Joy i want THRILL and EXCITEMENT.

The brother of you all.

Donovan

[JustLis]

BUT i DO disagree with you, and i have even controlled myself to the extent that i say it with some compassion and understanding that you JUST may NOT know any better, you may look up to these people without seeing their mistakes and shortcomings yet.

Donovan, please consider how you sound condescending when you say things in such a manner. People are saying things to you in a much more gentle manner than this, and you are taking strong exception to their seeing things differently and making suggestions to you, let alone insisting that they know more than you and you're just not capable of seeing the truth. Many times, the manner in which you say something makes all the difference in the way your message is accepted....

And also, I will be the FIRST ONE TO OPENLY admit i am mentally disturbed and a danger to myself and those around me, but that depends on where i draw the Starting line and where i draw the Finish line.

Donovan, if you see yourself in such a place, I would urge you to seek professional help from someone you can trust -- someone you really will listen to. I have been a danger to myself -- on a number of occasions -- and seeking help was the last thing I wanted to do. But I did. And I needed to look at and listen to some very painful things. But for yourself, if no one else, please do get help, Donovan, if you're recognizing this in yourself.

And lastly STOP RECOMMENDING DL TO ME, all of you!!! The more you recommend it, or tell me i should and must,the LESS i listen, infact its safe to say that PEOPLES percistence to have me FOLLOW the path has SERIOUSLY impacted on my adhering to the path, i see it as nothing more than an alterior motive by people to enslave me.

Donovan, serious question. When you arrived in this Divine Love community, filled with people who have found love and peace and spiritual fulfillment by following a Divine Love path, did you really EXPECT people to recommend a DIFFERENT path to help you find your own peace and spiritual fulfillment? It only makes logical sense, Donovan. Members of a Buddhist community wouldn't suggest Muslim prayer any more than would a Jewish community recommend accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Many people in this community have shared with you their own stories, the Padgett messages, and suggestions for finding your own spiritual path. Admittedly I haven't read every single message, but I have never seen anyone dictate what you must do. Your choices always remain your own, as this community believes more in the gift of free will than any other spiritual community I have ever known. No one here wishes to enslave you, and they could not do so even if it WERE their desire. Your decisions remain your own, Donovan. Please recognize their suggestions as their way of trying to help you, not enslave you.

So The change nolonger lies with me, its with God and his angels to show me what i want to see, the things that make me happy, then i do the rest of the work

Were it so easy, faith would not be necessary, and I would not be on my lengthy journey, either. As Mark has said to me, in my search for a sign, "What do you want, a burning bush?" :-) No, I'd settle for something a little more subtle.... :-) But if you're sitting back, waiting for a sign of what heaven looks like, I doubt you're likely to get a better one than what others have told you about the spheres and what has been written in the religious documents of a number of faiths.... A place of peace and love.... And I seriously doubt you'll be able to name your terms once you get there.... :-)

Truth doesnt Mutate you say, then what do you call Divine Love teachings???

The truth doesn't change. But our understanding of it can, as we gather more evidence and examine other ways of thinking. As I understand it, this is what has happened through the Padgett messages; new evidence has led to other ways of interpreting and understanding the truth.

write a 4000 Page book, proclaim it as truth and tell a nation to follow it or Else, but in MY book thats called BRAINWASHING, when you are forced to abandon sceptecism, logical thought, reasoning, intellectual achievements, a cent of money, an ounce of freedom, your personal customs, joys and tastes, your style of music, the clothes you wear, THAT IS BRAINWASHING

Donovan, in the years that I have known the people involved with this path, I have NEVER experienced anyone doing any such thing. They have freely offered their own understandings and experiences. They have WELCOMED my questions, my logic, my skepticism. My closest contacts have been Mark and Doug, who appeal to my more intellectual side in this journey, and Amy and Kathryn, who appeal to my more feeling side in this journey. None has EVER pushed an agenda or asked me to put aside who *I* am in seeking a relationship with God. I understand that you have serious issues with authority, Donovan, and that you are very concerned about being brainwashed or enslaved. But people here are simply incapable of enslaving you. And education and knowledge are not brainwashing. You remain capable of choosing to use what you want and leave the rest.

The problem i believe is Lack of understanding, if people could feel what i feel in the things i feel my greatest joy in they would SURE AS THE SUN RISES never try to belittle it or destroy it or reccomend a Replacement

Donovan, just a thought? A lot of folks here feel their greatest joy in their relationship with God as a result of the Divine Love.... Maybe they don't feel good about having it being belittled as "brainwashing" or "enslavement" or "not knowing any better"?

Just some thoughts....

I wish you peace....

Lis